UK Landlord Forum / Life

We let a flat to two young women. Last night 31st December at about 6pm, one of them rang to say that she'd pulled the chord for the mains power for the shower.  Smoke began to come from it so she switched it off and called us.  My husband, who is trained in electrics, talked her through switching it off in the fuse box and said he'd call round to attend to it this morning. He bought the required part and went round to fix it.  However, as it's on the ceiling, it was awkward so he couldn't do it. He explained that he would ring our electrician tomorrow (as it is a bank holiday today - and this isn't classed as an emergency as they had hot water to have a bath, rather than a shower.  We were confident that it would have been fixed within a couple of days, as we have 3 electricians who we use and all are good responders. 

However, this afternoon, less than 24 hours after the tenants reported it and only four hours after my husband attended the flat and told them that we would contact our electrician in the morning, we received an email to say that they had called an electrician who had done the work and they would be taking £370 off their next month's rent to pay for this.  Can they do this if they haven't given us a reasonable time to have it fixed (less than 24 hours!) Can anyone advise me, please?

Unless you've given tenants authorisation to employ services (which my AST does not allow) then you are not liable for the services that they employ. They can pay as little or as much rent as they want but will be in arrears, which I would be making them aware of and deducting the amount for their deposit come the end of the tenancy.

I agree 100%

Absolutely.  Put it in writing that they cannot do this again without your authorisation,  and that unless they settle the arrears it will be deducted from their deposit. Nip this in the bud.

I think I would be having a quiet word. Usually people do things for pretty good reasons. A few days delay doesn't seem like a good reason on the face of it. It's unlikely any AST out there provides a clause for Tenants employing their own trades without authorisation... so it's maybe quite possible they thought your other half was floundering in his attempt and wanted to help. I mean I don't know what "trained in electrics" means... but it sounds like he's not an actual Electrician at the end of the day? I've never had a lesson in electrics either... but I can turn my hand to some things, and not others... maybe they saw your other half fumbling around and thought - "nah, I'm not having this bodger try to fix this" - just like they'd reasonably not be happy with him working on the gas - and so took matters into their own hands (possibly altruistically, possibly not - likely not, but giving the benefit of the doubt here).

The quiet word suggestion is different from the other replies because they've gone formal. The situation you're in right now is one where the work has been done. You're not going to go in and undo it, are you? So the first thing to do is accept it's been done... it's not at a crazy price... might be a tad more expensive than you'd like. Pay and move on, but have that quiet word about the fact they're not "allowed" to do this, and must give you a reasonable time to effect repairs even around the turn of the year etc.. This will [re]set expectations and will also give you feedback as to whether they're reasonable people or those kind of Tenants who believe they live in a hotel.

Normally, I'd be in the quiet word camp. But calling out an electrician on a bank holiday for something that's not life and death is something that needs stopping. The expectation needs to be properly (re)set.

I agree that £370 isn't the end of the world, though.

And it's not like the £370 is just lost... the repair still needed to happen, and the bill still needed to be paid. It's unlikely someone competent and qualified would do it for a score or a pony. The Tenants have - however they went about it - saved you the hassle of arranging and managing the issue (my time is always worth something). It's a quiet word that's needed here, not a rocket - not quite yet.

All fair points.

But that £370 is going to include a premium for being a bank holiday job, and the replacement part had already been purchased.

Parts that had already been purchased, yes, but effectively in error, by someone who evidently couldn't do the job. Now it is a spare.

I mean, the Tenant told the Landlord it was the shower pull switch / cord. Was the Landlord somehow taken-aback by the fact it was on the ceiling or something? Isn't that where they usually are? Isn't the Landlord familiar with their own property to that extent, that they didn't even arrive prepared? Seems not, and it seems they just bumbled around before telling the Tenant they'd get an[other] Electrician (at some unspecified future point) before departing the scene (on New Year's Eve).

All points made from every angle are salient... but I'm coming down more on the side of the Tenant the more cycles I devote to this problem.

Thanks everyone for your advice and help. Just to clarify, the problem with my husband doing the job was not because the switch was on the ceiling (he knew that and has explained it more fully to me), but because the insulation on the wire next to the part of the switch that had burnt had become brittle and he was reluctant to pull too hard on the cable through the ceiling to be able to strip it back to form a good, safe connection.  The new switch bought by my husband was used by the electrician called out by the tenant. The tennants' sole reason for calling out an electrician on a bank holiday was because they don't want to miss their daily shower (the hot tap on the bath was still working). Today they transferred their rent to our account, minus £370.  Our electrician called us back today and said he would have done it for £80!  We are thinking through how to respond to our tenants.

They're true to their word.

Did you say / tell them anything in-between telling you they were going to do it and them actually doing it?

It doesn't really matter why he couldn't do it.

He turned up, intending to do it, and then couldn't do it - and left.

That's enough for any reasonable and normal person to think twice about allowing (yes, allowing) an untrained non-competent person to work where there's water and electricity. I would think twice about it, even on my own home where I'm more tempted to "have a go".

The Tenants didn't choose for the switch / wiring to fail on New Year's Eve, or any Bank Holiday, it just happened that way. I think it would have worked out differently if you hadn't tried to fix it on the cheap first time around... if you'd refrained from sending someone over non-qualified then they may have been more willing to wait until an actual Electrician of your choosing turned-up 4 or 5 days later. Maybe not too.

As said before - it's extremely unlikely there's any positive clause in the AST allowing Tenants to choose and employ contractors and deduct from the rent - but this is the real world we are living in here. I'm still minded to advise swallowing the cost but having that quiet word (then hope the issue doesn't arise again for the remainder of the tenancy - as there's no excuse a second time around). It's a learning experience (a not very expensive one, either).

The absolute last thing I'd be advising is to make it a bigger thing that it is... £370 on the day vs. £80 almost a week later is quite a good equation actually. Of course a premium is paid for immediacy - the Tenants wanted that, whereas the Landlord didn't seem to be that bothered.

Is it really worth you falling out with your Tenant over this?

If so you better be squeaky clean on all other matters such as deposit protection etc.

The issue here which both Landlords and Tenants can be guilty of is entitlement.

They are entitled to hot water and a prompt repair, albeit that the time taken to repair is subjective requirement, if all hot water was gone I would say 48 hours but shower vs bath, maybe 7 days. 

You are entitled to mitigate your loss and determine who does the repair.

As others have given you excellent advice I will not argue the semantics I just think that in the scheme of things this is small money.

A polite email reminding them of the appropriate term and warning them they are not able to authorise or employ any contractor to make repairs on the property should suffice and puts you in a stronger position in the future.

Having dealt with hundreds of Landlord Tenant disputes what I would warn you of is a Tenant using this to make you look bad in another legal matter and then saying in their witness statement that they had to carry out repairs because you failed to do so.  The cost of you arguing your innocence will be far more expensive in legal fees.

As always there is a lesson here other than how to handle the Tenant, between tenancies remove the electric shower, get the combi boiler to heat the water for a shower head attached to the bath and put the whole thing under a service contract.

Quote from: JulieP on January 02, 2024, 10:22:03 PMThanks everyone for your advice and help. Just to clarify, the problem with my husband doing the job was not because the switch was on the ceiling (he knew that and has explained it more fully to me), but because the insulation on the wire next to the part of the switch that had burnt had become brittle and he was reluctant to pull too hard on the cable through the ceiling to be able to strip it back to form a good, safe connection.  The new switch bought by my husband was used by the electrician called out by the tenant. The tennants' sole reason for calling out an electrician on a bank holiday was because they don't want to miss their daily shower (the hot tap on the bath was still working). Today they transferred their rent to our account, minus £370.  Our electrician called us back today and said he would have done it for £80!  We are thinking through how to respond to our tenants.

Quote from: David on January 04, 2024, 12:57:50 PMAs always there is a lesson here other than how to handle the Tenant, between tenancies remove the electric shower, get the combi boiler to heat the water for a shower head attached to the bath and put the whole thing under a service contract.

If it is a combi boiler, of course...