UK Landlord Forum / Life

I have hired an architect to design alterations to a house before we rent it out. Particularly to change the internal layout to provide four bedrooms with a further, small bedroom / study, add an en suite to the master bedroom, add an opening between the reception rooms, access from the rear reception room to the garden and improve the kitchen.

As part of the kitchen layout the architect has proposed converting the existing downstairs toilet into a pantry area. The architect's reasoning is that the removal of the downstairs toilet will not be a significant loss to the facilities in the house because the en suite is adding a second toilet. I am less keen to remove what I regard as a useful resource.

The most likely tenants are going to be a family with three or four children. And I think that a toilet downstairs would be desirable for such tenants. What opinions / advice do other members have about this?

This is an illustration of the ground floor layout, where the existing, downstairs toilet area is highlighted in light green:

I am all for it, without a doubt.

Personally I'd keep the downstairs loo. Especially if you are renting out to a family.  It's a definite advantage if someone struggles with stairs too.

You get no more rent for an extra toilet.

I only see it as one more thing that will leak/need replacing.
but then they will seal off the pipework below the floor level - hope that doesnt leak.

A pantry that has door into the hallway(?) -- wierd.

Cheaper to leave it as a toilet? Or does that require re-tiling/expense...Your real issue in keeping it as a toilet is the ventilation - doesnt look like you have an outside window so need an extractor and piping etc..cost cost cost(?)

Basically look at it like a business... am not sure a family will rent or not rent a house based on a third toilet.

Best of luck

Thank you for the responses. They are very helpful.

I regard the downstairs toilet as an asset for the occupiers because:
1.  (Visiting) children / others can go to the toilet there without having to go into the upstairs area of the house.
2.  It would assist a family member who has trouble negotiating stairs
3.  Lounge lizards, who like to munch and watch TV in a reception room, often much prefer not to have to climb a flight of stairs for a wee.

I did not include all the detail in the initial post, TheAngryLandlord, because I wished to constrain the length.

The space where the present toilet and hand basin is was the pantry area for the original kitchen before the kitchen was extended to the rear. When the toilet was installed the door into the kitchen area was blanked off with a wood panel and the door into the area from the hallway created. So it would be fairly simple to fill the current door with a panel and reinstate the original.

I have been trying to make decisions in the context of the house as a business. The architect has heard this from me and my regard for return on investment many times already. And particularly the phrase: "Every £400 of spend delays achieving profitability by a further month."

What does occur to me is that a downstairs toilet facility might help to secure a sale later. And may also be a factor in existing tenants deciding to remain in the house rather than moving on. But I am aware that my opinion may be quite incorrect, hence the post.

This is a version of the ground floor plan, on which I have attempted to illustrate to some extent the proposal from the architect to link the kitchen with the reception area, but with the ground floor toilet retained:

I'm not really qualified to comment here other than as a simple observer...

Looks to me like 6 and half a dozen.
I prefer the first picture...don't like the idea of the toilet in the kitchen, but I'd keep the toilet...seems like less work as well.

But to your points:
A downstairs toilet might help secure a sale.....maybe but I doubt it.  Maybe if someone with mobility issues was looking but then they'd need a bedroom and a shower as well on the ground floor. Or better still a bungalow.

A downstairs toilet might be a factor in a tenant remaining in the house....I doubt that very very much...things like job, rent, income, schools, location, number of bedrooms etc are so far ahead of the factor of a downstairs toilet..

My opinion only ...which is worth as much as yesterday's newspaper.

I need to verify that extending the kitchen area beyond the toilet door would not contravene Building Regulations. Another possibility may be not to put a door on the internal entry to the kitchen area at all. With the result that the boundary between the hallway, the kitchen and the rear, reception room is not defined.

I quite understand that what is in the light green area will only have a slight bearing on the disposition of (potential) tenants / purchasers. The decisions do need to be made though (And I have already agreed to create an additional bedroom and add an en suite facility to the house, which has highly regarded local schools and access to a variety of employment opportunities.). And if I view the situation from the opposite aspect, of how important the presence or absence of the pantry area would be to a tenant, then keeping the area as a toilet seems even more sensible to me.

Quote from: Tobermory on November 27, 2015, 09:59:11 PMI have hired an architect to design alterations to a house before we rent it out.

This is the crux of your problem, right here. The whole idea is unnecessary. Allow the property to stand on its own two feet as it is. I've let property after property, I have never once reconfigured one in preparation for letting. The approach you take is that various prospective Tenants view your property and one of them then decides to rent it... you don't start doing expensive work based on your own assumptions of what Tenants may or may not want.

As you appear to be less experienced than I am, I'm going to posit that I'm doing it the right way, whereas you are about to do things the wrong way. My experience over the years is that people don't like to be told this.

I appreciate the advice, I have considered it and the proposed approach is a possible course of action for me. Not least because I have contemplated it already and am presently still only exploring the available options. I have not committed to anything yet and I am obtaining estimates for all the proposed works.

I wanted to just rent the property out as it stands. Then a Letting Agent told me quite firmly that if bits of a ceiling fell on a tenant's head I would likely be held liable for compensation (Which seemed far too onerous to me - Someone rents the house they should accept the state of the ceiling and the likely consequences. I have lived in far worse.). And an electrician insisted that the wiring was not fit. So I am being (reluctantly) persuaded that ceilings need to be replaced in several rooms, many of the walls need to be replastered and pretty much everywhere needs to be redecorated and rewired.

If I need to have the above mentioned works done then, while the tradesmen are about, it will involve little extra cost to erect a stud wall partition with two doors. And so convert a ridiculously large existing bedroom in to two (Radiators, lighting and power sockets are already there to service the two, proposed bedrooms. And each resulting room could still accommodate a king size bed if required).

I have no experience of renting. I do have some experience of selling houses. And some idea what existing elements of the house are likely to prevent potential buyers making an offer. I also have a good idea what would exceed the expectations of people looking to purchase a house in this area, and would therefore be a waste of monies. The alterations, which I view as being likely to increase the value of the house beyond their cost, will require plastering, decorating and cleaning work to make good the surrounding areas if they are done later. At present the work that is scheduled to be done anyway would correct the mess, which the other changes would generate. And so making those changes now would be cheaper than having them done later.

I am also concerned that I am wrong.

That's fair enough... be careful of Letting Agents. When they tell you you need an electrical certificate, a special test for Legionnaires and various other stuff. There are things you must do and things some of them would like you to do.

But I do wonder, if you are being persuaded these things need doing, what kind of craphole you're about to let...

Don't let no crap. Everyone's a winner.