UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi, i literally cant find the right answer to this crucial question. Most websites say you can issue a section 8 if tenant hasnt paid rent for 8 weeks. Does it have to be full 8 weeks or 2 months because i read somewhere else that just 1 day after second rent is due already counts as 2 months arrears. Our tentant used to pay monthly on the 14th of every month. Last payment we recieved was 14th of December.
So when can i issue a section 8? Feb 14th or March 14th?
Thank you

You need to look at your contract and the law (not generic websites as they can generalise and miss your specific case)
It's about the frequency of payment under the contract

From the Housing Act 1988 Sch 2

Ground 8

Both at the date of the service of the notice under section 8 of this Act relating to the proceedings for possession and at the date of the hearing—
(a)if rent is payable weekly or fortnightly, at least eight weeks' rent is unpaid;
(b)if rent is payable monthly, at least two months' rent is unpaid;
(c)if rent is payable quarterly, at least one quarter's rent is more than three months in arrears; and
(d)if rent is payable yearly, at least three months' rent is more than three months in arrears;

Hope that clarifies.

Thank you for your fast answer, yes I have that in the contract, so basically the answer is i do have to wait 2 full months? A day after the second month rent is due does not count?
But i also saw this in the contract.

It is agreed between the Landlord and Tenant as follows:

1. Ending the Tenancy and Re-entry 1.1. If at any time:

1.1.1. the Rent, or any part of it remains unpaid for 14 days after falling due, whether formally demanded or not; or
1.1.2. tif any agreement or obligation of the Tenant is not complied with; or
1.1.3. tif any of the grounds set out in Schedule 2 of the Housing Act 1988 (as amended) being grounds 2, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 or 17 are made out (see Definitions);
5.4. The notice must not end before the last date of the tenancy set out in clause 1
the Landlord may give written Notice to the Tenant that the Landlord seeks possession of the Property. If the Tenant does not comply with that Notice the Landlord will bring this Agreement to an end and re-gain possession of the Property by complying with his statutory obligations; obtaining a court order; and re-entering the Property with the County Court Bailiff. When the Bailiff enforces a possession order the right for the Tenant to remain in the Property will end.
(Main Terms of Tenancy) and must end on the day before the rent is due. You will still be legally responsible for paying the rent and for all other responsibilities under this agreement until the notice ends and you have moved out of the premises.
This clause does not prejudice any other rights that the Landlord may have in respect of the Tenant’s obligations under this Agreement.

You say that the tenant paid monthly?  BUT Was it payable as stated in the contract on a Monthly or Weekly basis?
If Monthly then the tenant needs to be 2 months overdue
If weekly then 8 weeks overdue.

I'm not sure about the extract you have pasted from the contact - are the clause numbers mixed up?
Clause 1 above doesn't seem to be complete
Clause 5.4 seems to be related to a section 21 notice?  There is no need for a section 8 to be served after the last date of the Tenancy set out in clause 1 (I assume this is the end of the fixed term).

As an aside the Section 8 process is not really that straightforward - for example if the tenant pays some rent just before the hearing so they are no longer 2 months behind then you have no case... there are other pitfalls.
I have somewhat assumed the fixed term has not ended because you have only asked about a section 8 notice..?

Thank you again for that.
This tenant signed a 3 year contract that started Sep 2018
He pays rent monthly. The 14th of every month.
So he's only paid 4 months and now hes stopped because of financial problems. Great start to a 3 year contract!

This is why im asking because technically 1 day after the second rent was meant to be paid makes it 2 months rent arrears.
Does it work like that? or 2 months means 2 full months? So by his 3rd missed rent then that counts as 2 full months.

Oh!! Penny dropped now - sorry didn't understand what you were asking.

It goes by "rent arrears" not "time elapsed".
So if he is paying in advance then two months arrears will accrue after 1month and 1 day of non payment.

Quote from: TonyB on February 16, 2019, 08:00:04 PM
This is why im asking because technically 1 day after the second rent was meant to be paid makes it 2 months rent arrears.
Does it work like that?

Yes!

But that means the earliest you can serve is the 15th of Feb - not the 14th - be careful.

Just realised it’s the 16th today so ignore the last post above - not relevant.

Ok great so i can issue Section 8. Agent who isnt very godd at their job didnt know that and told me i can only issue ii on the 14th of March.
Now that Feb 15th has gone can I issue it on Monday Feb 17th? Or did i have to issue it EXACTLY on the 14th or 15th?

And sorry last thing, if I do issue a Section 8 and then they pay say half of the month rent then thats over isnt it?
I have read that I should always issue 8 and 21 together.
I am a new landlord and this is the first time this has happened and its shocking how difficult the law makes it for landlords. Unbelievable

1. No you don't have to do it exactly on the 15th.  You can serve anytime after 2 months arrears have accrued (and still owing). Monday is fine.

2. If you do a section 8 and they then pay rent to be less than 2 months in arrears on the date of the hearing you won't have a case.

3. I'm afraid the section 21 won't help if you are still within the fixed term.  You really should not do an agreement longer than 6 months fixed term (exactly to be able to serve a s21 if you need to) unless you have a big deposit from the tenant  and really need the certainty of a tenant - but as you are finding out  that certainty is a bit of a red herring.

There are different grounds to section 8. The ground you are talking about is the mandatory ground 8. There are also discretionary grounds 10 and 11 that's applicable. When you serve your section 8 notice, you may as well serve it with grounds 10 and 11 as well.

If they pay it to below 2 months, you wait until the following month when they go over and serve them a new notice. If they keep doing it, at least the arrears will be kept at less than two months. If you have issued a court claim, and you have given grounds 10 and 11 as well, you can go through with it and may still end up with possession or at least get a suspended order.

Thank you for all advice. Appreciate it. Now the question is do I do it through my useless real estate agent (who will do it for free but probably mess it up) or get a lawyer (whos expensive but will get it right).

I also heard that the court will favour a Section 8 signed by a law firm or a landlord rather than an agent.

Quote from: TonyB on February 17, 2019, 06:12:35 AM
Thank you for all advice. Appreciate it. Now the question is do I do it through my useless real estate agent (who will do it for free but probably mess it up) or get a lawyer (whos expensive but will get it right).

I also heard that the court will favour a Section 8 signed by a law firm or a landlord rather than an agent.

I think you just answered your own question :-)

  You're right! Thank you all