UK Landlord Forum / Life

My new tenants have a cryptocurrency operation set up in my house. I am seriously worried that this is a fire hazard. How can I stop them from doing this ?

You cannot. This is not Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nepal or hellostan (I am not writing this word, the forum is changing it when I press Save). What rationale do you have behind your as-yet unjustified worry?

What is an "operation" in this case? Please define what you've observed.

I think they call it a mining rig. You take the cover of a desktop computer, put a special card in it and then run the device continuously 24/7 without the cover on. They have then placed an electric fan next to the computer to stop it overheating. This set-up sounds dangerous / fire hazard.

That's just two devices... a computer and a fan. How is that a fire risk? The card inside will be a graphics card - a GPU. Plenty of computers run with the cover on... probably not 24/7 but games will surprise you. The PC will have its own cooling as well... so it seems like they're doing belt and braces. As long as you're Insured and they're paying the electricity bill... I don't see that you have a legitimate concern. It's entirely possible the cover can go back on, without undue impact. It all seems very modest from what you've described.

If it was an entire farm of PCs, running from a single overloaded socket and they were somehow stealing the electricity, then I'd be more concerned. I think you feel it's dangerous because it's new to you, unfamiliar. Better to mine Bitcoins (other cryptocurrencies are available) than be growing cannabis.,. or running a brothel.

Thanks for your advice. It is reassuring. My landlord's insurance says no business or professional activities to be carried out in the house. If the tenants make any money from this operation can it be counted as a business or professional activity and therefore my insurance company refuse to pay out if there is a fire. I have heard stories of mining rigs catching fire and burning down an entire block of flats in Russia and the USA and there are videos on Youtube titled 'Look my mining rig caught fire'

If you want a zero-risk approach to making money you wouldn't allow Tenants to have mining rigs... pets... irons... power tools... fridges... microwaves... use of the oven... TVs... their own key?

But, again, if you wanted a zero-risk approach to making money then you wouldn't be a Landlord.

Mining cryptocurrency likely isn't as lucrative as you may be thinking... certainly not with one PC and a GPU. I am curious if it will even cover the cost of the electricity consumed.

All that said... even if they weren't mining anything... they could easily be a gamer who has their PC on 24/7 and needs a GPU to get the highest frame rate for their immersive high-definition games... you saying "no" to crypto. mining doesn't solve the issue you have. Not really.

My paternal grandfather was a coal miner.He had to down a big pit every day,there's no way he could have done his job from home.I think your tenants are having a laugh.

I think my point is if you modify a computer and then need to place an electric fan next to it to stop the device overheating then the tenants know this is a risk. I don't place an electric fan next to my laptop or computer to stop it overheating as I am using my devices unmodified as the manufacturer intended them to be used. My tenants are not using the device as intended by the manufacturer, modifying it makes it a riskier device and then placing a fan next to it means the tenants know there is a risk of it overheating otherwise there would be no need to have a fan constantly blowing on the device.

PCs are designed to be modular, configurable and customisable... that's kinda the whole point. It's not considered modification going against Manufacturer's demands if you change the graphics card for a better one - is called upgrading - that's the intention of PCs (as opposed to something like a games console, say). You are betraying your lack of knowledge in this space with your comments - but that's OK as it lets me know that you know very little. Before I could not be sure what you knew. The fan is probably just assisting the rig to run cooler and therefore compute faster. I doubt they have given a second thought to the notion of a fire risk (and I doubt there is one). It's performance they want. There isn't probably a "need" but it's a benefit they "want".

I think you should stop sticking your nose in. Honestly. Respectfully. You don't have the knowledge of what you're talking about to be justifiably worried about it.

Before you ask me if I'll personally indemnify you against a fire risk if you let them keep it (!) the answer is emphatically "no".

I have asked my tame scientist,and after a lengthy explanation of the maths behind what your tenant is doing,I wish I had never bothered. He doubts that this represents a fire risk,but like Hippogriff  he would not swear to this.He doubts that this will make much money for them on such a small scale.If it really is bothering you greatly you should contact your insurer and have something in writing. I had a tenant who would not stop leaving two bikes in the hall. I checked and found that any such obstruction would have nullified the block insurance in the event of fire,and showed her the letter.   

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I will check with the Fire Service for a definitive answer or ask them to come do a safety visit and then I will know for sure. Seems strange though that every time I mention this to someone they thing the tenants are out of order doing this.

Someone's view is based on a lack of understanding. People automatically think badly of things they don't understand. It's the Tenant's hardware. It's the Tenant's electricity bill. It's the Tenant's home. The person who is out of order is... sadly.. the Landlord.

The Fire Service! 

"Hello, Fire Service!"
"Hello, can my Tenant run a PC that they've taken apart and then upgraded in the property I've let to them?"
"Er... what?"
"I believe my Tenant is engaging in the mining of cryptocurrencies and I believe that there's a fire safety issue."
"Oh, well... how big is the mining operation? What size is the cluster?"
"I already said - they have a single PC - but they've taken out the graphics card and put a better one in there."
"One PC?"
"Correct... but it's obviously running very hot because they're cooling it with a fan."
"Don't PCs have fans anyway?"
"I assume so - but this is obviously running very hot! I tell you, someone told me it's a fire safety issue."
"How hot is it running?"
"I don't know. I've not taken any measurements."
"How do you know it's running hot?"
"It must be running hot - they've got a fan pointed at it! Can't you come out and inspect it and ban the Tenants from doing this in my property?"
"We don't really do that... if you think it's illegal then maybe you could call the Police?"

Please let us know if you get a definitive answer from the Fire Service. I don't see how you can. To me this situation is now so ludicrous I am starting to think it's a wind-up. Whatever you do, don't call 999!

I really think you should butt out, but I don't think you are going to... someone has told you something needs doing.

All the Tenants would need to do to satisfy you is put the cover back on! You can't stop them upgrading their graphics card or running their PC for 24 hours a day. Can you? And... if the cover was never off you'd never have become aware of what was inside, right? This is a perfect example of how too little knowledge causes FUD.

I feel I owe an apology to HippoGriff and all other users of this forum. I admit that I did not read the Terms and Conditions when I registered on this site and therefore did not see the condition saying you had to be an expert on cryptocurrency set-ups to use this forum. I am not an expert on cryptocurrency set-ups.

I had assumed this forum was to gain knowledge and seek advice on matters that you may not be an expert on.

My intention was not to cause offence by asking are cryptocurrency set-ups a fire risk. I genuinely can't see how I offended HippoGriff. Do you HippoGriff by any chance have your own cryptocurrency set-up and this is how I caused you offence.

You haven't caused offence... I'm just trying to stop you from being daft and intrusive. I have been educating you... or trying to... you seem more keen to listen to someone.

This is one PC.

The mining of cryptocurrency has no bearing... not really... you don't seem to grasp that PCs have a power supply. If the power supply cannot provide enough power for the things inside it (CPU, memory, storage, disks, various other IO cards etc.) then it won't work, right? So it's not a fire risk... because it's running. If the National Grid couldn't supply enough power to run this thing... again... big problem!

The fact is that when CPUs (or GPUs) run for a long time... they generate heat... that's just physics (as opposed to psychics)... and they work better when they're cooler... every powerful computer will have a cooling system... usually fans... but sometimes water (in higher-end PCs - often used for gaming, as I said)... and none of this is a fire risk. The Tenants here have a fan pointed at it... sure, I get it, you are very suspicious of it... but they could just be giving it the best chance of performing the best it can.

Regardless of all that... it's still really nothing to do with you. You've let the property to the Tenants. They have exclusive possession. If you have a real downer on cryptocurrency mining then insert a clause into your next AST and ensure the Tenants are drawn to it... you can't impose your will on Tenants going about their life in a normal way. Certainly not acting on dodgy information and supposition. You are not their father.

How many times do you think Tenants have done things they shouldn't in rented properties? Never? Some? Lots? Letting property is not risk-free. But the risk here is negligible and you don't appear to be listening to that experience I'm sharing with you. I mean... when you first came on here... I thought it was some kind of farm you could hardly look at 'cos it was like the surface of the sun... it's just a PC!

Quote from: manchesterguy on August 16, 2021, 10:41:08 AMDo you HippoGriff by any chance have your own cryptocurrency set-up and this is how I caused you offence.

No, I have never once even looked into mining... to be honest, I thought the days of profitability from this were long-gone, about five years ago. I don't even have a good PC!  I prefer farming rewards by providing liquidity into pools. I'd explain it to you but you'd probably freak-out. Don't worry about it, I'm not a fire risk.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It was really helpful and is appreciated.

I actually spoke to someone about this... in more detail than even I wanted to... yes, people are still mining. A person (kid, really) has relayed that their high-end PC (with a GeForce RTX 3060 - not the latest, but still many hundreds of £s - the 3090 runs much higher) has been mining them, getting about 35,000,000 SHIB tokens per month... the market price of 1 SHIB today is $0.000008865... so about $310... per month, for running the PC 24 hours a day. That's obviously not profit... it's likely profitable, depending on your outlay and electricity prices... but I also suppose he also has the cryptocurrency itself, which he can hold... if that rises in value, happy days.

Yesterday SHIB broke the $0.000009xxx level. It's no Bitcoin. Although both are imaginary.

This whole crypto-mining thing by tenants is a bit of a curveball, right?   They're using our electricity to rake in some digital dough!  I'm all for tenants making a bob or two, but if they're running noisy asicminercompare.com that jack up the bills and wear down the electrics, that's a whole other kettle of fish!  Anyone else out there have experience with this?  Thinking of putting a clause in the next tenancy agreement to nip it in the bud.

Not sure how many tenants get free electricity.

Quote from: Katricot on April 15, 2024, 02:01:42 PMThis whole crypto-mining thing by tenants is a bit of a curveball, right?   They're using our electricity to rake in some digital dough!

No idea what you are on about.

But in any event, you have replied to a thread that died in 2021.

Quote from: manchesterguy on August 15, 2021, 06:30:01 PMI think my point is if you modify a computer and then need to place an electric fan next to it to stop the device overheating then the tenants know this is a risk. I don't place an electric fan next to my laptop or computer to stop it overheating as I am using my devices unmodified as the manufacturer intended them to be used. My tenants are not using the device as intended by the manufacturer, modifying it makes it a riskier device and then placing a fan next to it means the tenants know there is a risk of it overheating otherwise there would be no need to have a fan constantly blowing on the device.

It's not a fire risk. Keeping the processor cool extends its lifespan. If it overheats it shortens its lifespan. It will have thermal sensors that cuts the CPU and/or gpu power consumption when it reaches a certain temperature and will drop the efficiency of the mining capability. All mining involves is the CPU or GPU (usually the later) running complex mathematical algorithm. They might not even be mining crypto (unlikely these days on a single gpu). Someone rendering out 3D graphics using software like lightwave or 3dstudio max could well do the same thing.

Quote from: Hirotali on June 04, 2024, 07:31:44 PMIt's not a fire risk...

@Hirotali, you have replied to @manchesterguy, who joined the forum on 14 Aug 2021 to ask a question, which was comprehensively answered.

On 16 Aug 2021 @manchesterguy said "Thanks for the detailed explanation. It was really helpful and is appreciated."

@manchesterguy has not logged in again since that date.


There is no point in reviving very old threads.

Quote from: HandyMan on June 05, 2024, 07:21:15 AM

Quote from: Hirotali on June 04, 2024, 07:31:44 PMIt's not a fire risk...

@Hirotali, you have replied to @manchesterguy, who joined the forum on 14 Aug 2021 to ask a question, which was comprehensively answered.

On 16 Aug 2021 @manchesterguy said "Thanks for the detailed explanation. It was really helpful and is appreciated."

@manchesterguy has not logged in again since that date.


There is no point in reviving very old threads.

Ah, it appeared on the first page so I thought it was new! Sorry!

It might not help the original poster, but it was useful information for me, and probably others.

Quote from: jpkeates on June 08, 2024, 08:48:57 AMit was useful information for me, and probably others.

Fair point.

We'll be replaced by AI any minute anyway.

You have already JPK, you are in the Matrix and just not aware yet.

The good news is you will be fed a nutritious glupe and live for hundreds of years

Most AI is not AI at all, just a marketing ploy.

Quote from: jpkeates on June 08, 2024, 04:35:31 PMWe'll be replaced by AI any minute anyway.

Large language model is a pretty accurate description of me, to be fair.