UK Landlord Forum / Life

I have very quickly dealt with a rat issue with a professional company at one of my properties which has led to one rat dying in a wall cavity and it's in an impossible place to remove. This is obviously now decomposing with the usual pungent smell.

Despite the smell being the vestibule which has door to the living room door, my student tenants are claiming that they both have serious health problems (First I've heard of it and not sure if that's relevant anyway) they will become ill if they breathe in the dead rat smell. They are also hitting me (Or rather one of the parents is!) with the Homes Act 2020 which is what I wanted to ask about here. The area that the dead rat is decomposing in is next to the front door and the downstairs cloakroom so they could in theory, use the back door and the upstairs bathroom and shut the door to the 'smelly' area.

The rat problem was not there are the start of tenancy but almost two months into it. Does the Home Act 2018 still apply?

First of all, there's no need to discuss the issue with anyone other than the tenants, so you could always ignore the parents.

Yes, the Homes fit for Human Habitation Act does apply. A dead rat is unlikely to make the property unfit for life, but that would be determined by the council.

You could report it to environmental health and see what they say.

You could offer to release the tenants from the tenancy rather than force them to live with the problem (which will just 
go away after a while). You're not a doctor and, while they're probably bullshitting about the health risk, you can't fix the problem, so you're a bit stuck.

If you're lucky, they're probably not going to be able to find other student accommodation mid term.

I'm not dealing with the parents and refuse to, but the emails from the student tenants have clearly been drafted by a parent. One of the parents wanted permission to open up the wall cavity to remove the dead rat. I did not give permission obviously and so I've now been sent the Homes Act 2018 for one rat.

With their last breaths they're sending the law to you, infected as they are with rat toxins. Such dedication.

It all seems to be a bit of a vicious circle, can't locate the rat, the tenants are quoting Homes Act 2018 and I can do nothing about it.

Surely, I can't be reported to the council if I am in the middle of dealing with it? (One more visit from the pest control)

Can they demand that the rat is located (Impossible) and removed immediately or would the law be on my side with them having to wait until the pest controller has completely finished which will be October 31st?

You can do things about it. The question is, what are you prepared to do about it versus what your tenants might do. Stop thinking and worrying and decide.

Quote from: jpkeates on October 17, 2024, 05:47:56 PMWith their last breaths they're sending the law to you, infected as they are with rat toxins.

All's fair in love and warfarin. 

I'm not worrying about it, I just want to get my facts straight. What would any of you do here?

Quote from: jpkeates on October 17, 2024, 05:18:02 PMYou could offer to release the tenants from the tenancy rather than force them to live with the problem (which will just 
go away after a while). You're not a doctor and, while they're probably bullshitting about the health risk, you can't fix the problem, so you're a bit stuck.

If you're lucky, they're probably not going to be able to find other student accommodation mid term.

Did they ask you to bump off the rat?  If so, I would tell them this is a case of The Rat' s Revenge.  He has had the last laugh by stinking the house out. The health risk to humans from live rats is very small, so a dead rat behind a wall is unlikely to be any risk whatsoever.

From my reading of forensic crime novels and watching Vera,  I understand that the smell only lasts until all putrefaction has finished. In the meantime I think there are sprays that are used in morgues and funeral homes, probably available online. People who work in such places also put some Vicks under their nose. The lady who runs the local beauty salon is a personal friend,  she started out as an embalmer, and she gave me this tip.   

Quote from: Pinkwindsor on October 17, 2024, 08:46:46 PMCan they demand that the rat is located (Impossible)...

This is simply not true.

"expensive" and "challenging", even "invasive" or "prohibitive" are not synonymous with "impossible". My stance is that there's not much that can be considered "impossible"... setting foot on the surface of the sun, sure... but that's not related to the Private Rental Sector.

Your thread starts out by claiming that you have very quickly dealt with a rat issue - even that part seems not to be true, to me.

Humour aside, the pest control was called in two days after the reporting of potentially scurrying rats in the attic and a plan of action put immediately into place which has dealt with everything apart from dead rat.

Thanks for everyone's helpful feedback.

Not something I ever thought I would Google. You don' t mention when this happened, but apparently it takes 2- 3 weeks for decomposition to complete,  but the smell could persist for a further week or two.  They could ventilate the area in the meantime,  and as you say use other access. It' s not nice, but it is a temporary nuisance and you acted in good faith in response to their request.

You may also need to check the state of their garden, and bins indoor and out. Rats will be drawn to easy sources of food. 

I had a very similar case last year where remainder were trapped after pest controller works were completed.  It was brought up as part of an attempt to paint the Landlord as this super nasty person when in fact they had been far too nice, familiarity breeds contempt.

The Homes Fitness for Habitation (2018) is still in effect, the issue is mitigation and causation, I doubt they will be going to Court any time soon, pests are in there (see list below),

Typically one would involve environmental health, you could always head this off by asking EH to come and inspect the property to satisfy themselves that no further works are required.  When they say you are fine and it will pass then you have satisfactory evidence in the event of any claim that the Tenants might attempt.

Also ask them what causes it and you will likely be given a very useful leaflet which you should copy to the Tenants.

You can also contact a bunch of pest controllers and one of their advisory bodies, to ask what they would do in a situation with a rat infestation and is there a way to guarantee to kill every rat in the drains and inaccessible areas etc.  Then ask if there are smells how long might they last.  Their answers all support your position.

Also ask if all treatments are safe (including fumes) in properties, even with children.  You will invariably be told all is safe because they have sealed up and even your domestic pets can't get to the area they treated.

To be clear, rats are everywhere around us, if we are sloppy with food they will smell it and bite through walls to get at it, some of the rats will die in the innards of buildings no matter what.

If you can show that there were no holes when you let the property and show the holes that appeared after they took occupancy then you can write a stiff letter to the Tenants saying that there has never been an infestation of rats in the property, you have photo evidence to show there were no holes at the start of the tenancy and that as far as you are concerned they are in breach of Tenant obligations section of the Tenancy Agreement, the one where it says not to live like pigs.


Here is the list


There is a problem with any of the following 29 things:

    damp and mould growth
    excess cold
    excess heat
    asbestos and manufactured metal fibres
    biocides (chemicals that treat mould)
    carbon monoxide
    lead
    radiation (from radon gas, which is airborne or in water)
    uncombusted fuel gas (leaks in gas appliances)
    volatile organic compounds (chemicals which are gases at room temperature)
    crowding and space
    entry by intruders (such as not having a lock on your front door)
    lighting
    domestic hygiene, pests and refuse (including inadequate provision for disposal of waste water and household waste)
    noise
    food safety
    personal hygiene, sanitation and drainage
    water supply
    falls associated with bath or shower
    falls associated with stairs and steps
    falls on the level (danger of falling on a flat surface)
    falls between levels (danger of falling from one level to another, for example, falls out of windows)
    electrical hazards
    fire and fire safety
    hot surfaces and materials
    collision and entrapment
    explosions
    physical strain associated with operating amenities (i.e. very heavy doors)
    structural collapse and falling elements


GUIDANCE:

Landlords:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018/guide-for-landlords-homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018

Tenants:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018/guide-for-tenants-homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018


LEGISLATION


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/34

Quote from: Pinkwindsor on October 17, 2024, 04:17:28 PMI have very quickly dealt with a rat issue with a professional company at one of my properties which has led to one rat dying in a wall cavity and it's in an impossible place to remove. This is obviously now decomposing with the usual pungent smell.

Despite the smell being the vestibule which has door to the living room door, my student tenants are claiming that they both have serious health problems (First I've heard of it and not sure if that's relevant anyway) they will become ill if they breathe in the dead rat smell. They are also hitting me (Or rather one of the parents is!) with the Homes Act 2020 which is what I wanted to ask about here. The area that the dead rat is decomposing in is next to the front door and the downstairs cloakroom so they could in theory, use the back door and the upstairs bathroom and shut the door to the 'smelly' area.

The rat problem was not there are the start of tenancy but almost two months into it. Does the Home Act 2018 still apply?

Yes, they do have the choice of using the other access. This has all been in the space of a week and a half.

Quote from: heavykarma on October 18, 2024, 01:17:55 PMNot something I ever thought I would Google. You don' t mention when this happened, but apparently it takes 2- 3 weeks for decomposition to complete,  but the smell could persist for a further week or two.  They could ventilate the area in the meantime,  and as you say use other access. It' s not nice, but it is a temporary nuisance and you acted in good faith in response to their request.

You may also need to check the state of their garden, and bins indoor and out. Rats will be drawn to easy sources of food. 

Thank you very much for your reassuring reply, I appreciative it.

The pest controller has said that it would be almost impossible to locate this particular dead rat and it would be highly unlikely that one rat would cause serious illness.Along with the detailed report and ongoing treatment, I am satisfied that I can't do anything more that what is being carried out already.

Quote from: David on October 18, 2024, 04:08:21 PMI had a very similar case last year where remainder were trapped after pest controller works were completed.  It was brought up as part of an attempt to paint the Landlord as this super nasty person when in fact they had been far too nice, familiarity breeds contempt.

The Homes Fitness for Habitation (2018) is still in effect, the issue is mitigation and causation, I doubt they will be going to Court any time soon, pests are in there (see list below),

Typically one would involve environmental health, you could always head this off by asking EH to come and inspect the property to satisfy themselves that no further works are required.  When they say you are fine and it will pass then you have satisfactory evidence in the event of any claim that the Tenants might attempt.

Also ask them what causes it and you will likely be given a very useful leaflet which you should copy to the Tenants.

You can also contact a bunch of pest controllers and one of their advisory bodies, to ask what they would do in a situation with a rat infestation and is there a way to guarantee to kill every rat in the drains and inaccessible areas etc.  Then ask if there are smells how long might they last.  Their answers all support your position.

Also ask if all treatments are safe (including fumes) in properties, even with children.  You will invariably be told all is safe because they have sealed up and even your domestic pets can't get to the area they treated.

To be clear, rats are everywhere around us, if we are sloppy with food they will smell it and bite through walls to get at it, some of the rats will die in the innards of buildings no matter what.

If you can show that there were no holes when you let the property and show the holes that appeared after they took occupancy then you can write a stiff letter to the Tenants saying that there has never been an infestation of rats in the property, you have photo evidence to show there were no holes at the start of the tenancy and that as far as you are concerned they are in breach of Tenant obligations section of the Tenancy Agreement, the one where it says not to live like pigs.


Here is the list


There is a problem with any of the following 29 things:

    damp and mould growth
    excess cold
    excess heat
    asbestos and manufactured metal fibres
    biocides (chemicals that treat mould)
    carbon monoxide
    lead
    radiation (from radon gas, which is airborne or in water)
    uncombusted fuel gas (leaks in gas appliances)
    volatile organic compounds (chemicals which are gases at room temperature)
    crowding and space
    entry by intruders (such as not having a lock on your front door)
    lighting
    domestic hygiene, pests and refuse (including inadequate provision for disposal of waste water and household waste)
    noise
    food safety
    personal hygiene, sanitation and drainage
    water supply
    falls associated with bath or shower
    falls associated with stairs and steps
    falls on the level (danger of falling on a flat surface)
    falls between levels (danger of falling from one level to another, for example, falls out of windows)
    electrical hazards
    fire and fire safety
    hot surfaces and materials
    collision and entrapment
    explosions
    physical strain associated with operating amenities (i.e. very heavy doors)
    structural collapse and falling elements


GUIDANCE:

Landlords:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018/guide-for-landlords-homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018

Tenants:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018/guide-for-tenants-homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018


LEGISLATION


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/34

Quote from: Pinkwindsor on October 17, 2024, 04:17:28 PMI have very quickly dealt with a rat issue with a professional company at one of my properties which has led to one rat dying in a wall cavity and it's in an impossible place to remove. This is obviously now decomposing with the usual pungent smell.

Despite the smell being the vestibule which has door to the living room door, my student tenants are claiming that they both have serious health problems (First I've heard of it and not sure if that's relevant anyway) they will become ill if they breathe in the dead rat smell. They are also hitting me (Or rather one of the parents is!) with the Homes Act 2020 which is what I wanted to ask about here. The area that the dead rat is decomposing in is next to the front door and the downstairs cloakroom so they could in theory, use the back door and the upstairs bathroom and shut the door to the 'smelly' area.

The rat problem was not there are the start of tenancy but almost two months into it. Does the Home Act 2018 still apply?