UK Landlord Forum / Life

I have had a tenant renting from me since 4 September 2017 and she is on UC. At the start of the tenancy, she explained that there would be a delay with the first payment. This was supported by what I was hearing in the media. She also explained that, although she didn't have the money for the deposit, this could be applied for from the local council as a one off discretionary payment and it was a mere formality obtaining it.

Weeks went by and I eventually heard from her that the payment had been refused, because she was already in the property when she submitted her claim. A month's rent was eventually received, though this did not cover the period she had been in the property, by this time.

With no deposit, I am then informed that there has been a computer error with her claim for UC and that she has to re-apply. This will mean another 6 weeks at least and her next payment will not be until after Christmas. When the day finally arrives, I receive only one month's rent.

At this point, I decide to take matters into my own hands. I apply to DWP for arrears in excess of £1500 and for managed payments. At the same time, I manage to find contact for a type of liaison officer with DWP, to explain everything to me. Although my application for arrears and managed payments is accepted, I still have no official notification of how monies will be administered. The only information I get is by email request through this contact.

In February, I received a managed payment about £70 short of the rental amount. The rest I have to coerce from my tenant. In March I receive another payment, which represented the same amount plus about £35 in arrears. I still have no official notification and manage to glean this information from the DWP contact.

The tenant has, as yet, not coughed up the £70+ balance for either February or March. The DWP contact has not yet confirmed whether or not I will receive any more than £35+ per month in arrears.

As the situation stands, I  can expect to be £70+ short every month in rent and only receive £35+ every month in arrears. I still have no deposit.

Before anyone tells me the obvious, I realise that I shouldn't have handed over the keys before I had a deposit in my hand.

I am sharing this for anyone else out there with similar problems and for any advice if you have had the same sort of experience.

I realise that I am within my rights on a short term tenancy to evict her for non payment of rent and for non-payment of deposit, both of which are part of the contract. What i am trying to avoid is losing the £1500+ arrears. My DWP contact explains that, if I either evict her, or she hands in her notice, or just does one, the arrears will stop.

I live in Thailand for 6 months of the year and my sister, who is the joint landlord, lives an hour away from the property, is strapped for time due to work and is also strapped for money generally. I get back to the UK at the end of this month and need to have a plan in place. My only means of contact with the tenant is through Messenger and my texts are often ignored. My sister struggles even more to get a response.

My first intention is to catch her at  home and have a tete-a-tete. I had never imagined being in this situation. What do the wise landlords out there think?

If your property can easily be let out at the correct rent (I am wondering if you took on a DSS tenant out of desperation?) to a salaried person,I personally would bite the bullet and issue 21.You are going to lose getting on for a thousand a year in the rent shortfall,and it will take a few years at this rate to get the arrears paid off.Plus,her unreliable attitude in general could be a warning of other problems ahead.

Bite the bullet... put it down to a bad experience. The Government and Council will never be on your side... in every and any aspect of the tenancy. Be thankful your eyes have been opened and be a cautionary tale that warns others. The Tenant here is likely as much a victim of the Kafka-esque system as you are, though... however, that doesn't excuse poor communication. I have had a similar challenge with communication from one Tenant in receipt of LHA and the top-up is hardly ever seen... then, sometimes, out of the blue, a modest payment will appear, with no warning. It keeps me on my toes. They (tarring everyone in receipt of LHA with the same brush) are not worth the hassle. Professional Tenants pay rent in advance. LHA Tenants will pay it in arrears. A Tenant who can't afford the Deposit (and needs it from another source - whether it be family or Council) is one who cannot save at all, therefore is unlikely to be capable of managing their own money. A Tenant who sticks their head in the sand is not one that a fruitful Landlord / Tenant relationship is going to spring from. Therefore - bite the bullet. Forget about your arrears. You've been had. It's not nice. You are being, effectively, blackmailed by your own Government - £35 per month to take back in £1,500 is over 42 months... almost 4 years... if you get rid, then apparently you're no longer owed that money, that they now agree you are owed - you couldn't make it up, could you? Apparently, the requirement to pay off a debt disappears if the situation changes... I love it (I hate it).

Last week a tenant (I had for 7 years) lost her job and went on UC.
Was told first payment would be 6 weeks late.

Had a live Section 21 (Form 6a) prior served (always do on a rotating basis)
Submitted the N5b form to the court same week.

Experience says this ALWAYS goes only one way so bail out ASAP.

She didn’t know I was preparing the court papers:
The calls last week started out conciliatory “I will move in with friends, please take the deposit as the last months rent etc.”, then ‘Boyfriend of Daughter’ gets involved and the last statement was “I can stay here for a year and not pay you rent, take me [even though he isn’t the tenant] to court”



Get rid of ASAP especially if you have limited time in the UK
(Don’t forget your flight back from Thailand could (in part) be a tax write off - small bit of silver in a large black cloud)

Best of luck

Quote from: theangrylandlord on April 12, 2018, 01:16:24 AMThe calls last week started out conciliatory "I will move in with friends, please take the deposit as the last months rent etc.", then 'Boyfriend of Daughter' gets involved and the last statement was "I can stay here for a year and not pay you rent, take me [even though he isn't the tenant] to court"

That escalated quickly. 

AngryLandlord,

Can you clarify what is meant by live 21,pre-served on rotating basis? Am I right,that regardless of tenants conduct,you do this automatically one at a time.so as to speed things up if things go wrong?  How long does 21 stay live?

Heavy,
Yes served regardless.

I copied this from the RLA website as I am sitting on a beach with a handphone only so too much to type:
""
For all tenancies granted in England on or after 1 October 2015 including a renewal, section 21 Housing Act 1988 is amended substantially and a new 'use it or loose it' provision is introduced.
Where the rent payable is weekly, monthly or two monthly, court proceedings for possession may not be begun after the end of six months from the date on which the notice was given.
Where the rent payable is greater than 2 monthly (such as quarterly, six monthly or annually), proceedings for possession must not be begun after the end of four months from the date given in the notice for expiry (the date possession is required under the notice).""

Hope that helps.
If you keep it served then (a) the tenants know you will act asap via the courts if they breach and (b) saves you time in the process and possible 2 months lost rent.
It's the same as the old s21 process you served that at the outset when you didn't even know how the tenant would behave.
Of course you may have to explain to the tenant this is simply procedural (for now) and you don't want the property back.

Hope that helps.

Quote from: heavykarma on April 12, 2018, 08:43:59 AM
AngryLandlord,

Can you clarify what is meant by live 21,pre-served on rotating basis? Am I right,that regardless of tenants conduct,you do this automatically one at a time.so as to speed things up if things go wrong?  How long does 21 stay live?

Was wondering the same, and does this become an admin burden if this is being refreshed every month (assuming static periodic )?

So I do it less frequently on those that I see less as a risk.
I don’t do it at all on those that are paying me a guaranteed rent (but I have known these companies for years)
Those that are renting the higher rent houses with a bigger deposit get the notice less often as these are my more robust tenants
Those that are more risky (like my recent friends) get the notice more frequently.

The notice is valid for 6 months though so maybe I am missing the point of Martha’s question

Thanks,I think I get it.I had wondered if this was a kind of periodic cull of tenants,done on a whim if the mood took you.Thought it seemed too good to be true.

I like the old 'take away menu in an envelope story' tenant was on a forum hadn't received a section 21 but did receive court papers.  Cast their mind back and had received a take away menu in the post.  LL had proof of postage for serving the section 21 notice and tenant was none the wiser.

I didn't want to raise it but it is actually even simpler....
You can just send an empty envelope.

I've seen this also done for cheques e.g. to the council (you can even do this using the "Signed For" service) so the "payor" can claim he sent the cheque - hence getting more time to settle the payment.

Of course I wouldn't encourage such behaviour..!