UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi - I'm drawing up a new agreement for my tenants, as the old one is now inadequate for several reasons. A  problem that has bugged me for a while is that the boyfriend of one tenant uses her flat as his address for a good deal of his mail.  He's not a joint tenant, although he probably lives at her place more than at his.  All mail is delivered centrally here, and I have to distribute it to the tenants, so I resent having to deal with post and parcels for someone who's not actually one of my tenants.  So I plan to insert a clause in the agreement that forbids the use of the property as an accommodation address for anyone who is not a tenant, or at least a member of the tenant's declared household.  A separate annexe to the agreement, consisting of general information, would make clear that such deliveries would be returned or refused.  Am I on weak ground here?  It seems fair to me, but then I'm clearly biased!

Or, alternatively, you could grow up and not allow these trivialities in life to build resentment? Or - better yet - get yourself a hobby if you've not got enough to be doing to keep you busy?

Have you spoken to the tenant and told her this is not acceptable? I had someone do this once,and it turned out her boyfriend was on the run,using her address for car accident insurance scams.I gave her notice immediately.

Quote from: Farmer on October 29, 2021, 12:34:36 PM
I plan to insert a clause in the agreement that forbids the use of the property as an accommodation address for anyone who is not a tenant, or at least a member of the tenant's declared household.

So, if the boyfriend moved in permanently with his girlfriend (your tenant) and she declared him to be part of her household, then you would presumably be perfectly happy to deal with the same quantity of mail for him that you are currently getting vexed about?

Unless he receives sack loads of post every day, I really feel you should just consider how lucky you are to have a tenant who pays the rent, and that you should leave her to the quiet enjoyment of her home (which is what it is for the period that she is renting it from you).

Quote
Am I on weak ground here?

Indeed you are.

I would not like to have to distribute post and parcels for someone who is not supposed to be living there either. The difficulty is that you have been doing this already so it's more difficult to just stop. With hindsight you would simply not recognise the addressee as one of your tenants and return all post and parcels to senders. That's what I would do, miserable me. However 'good' the tenant, a liberty is taken. You can put whatever you like in an agreement but it's another thing if a tenant agrees and abides (or if it would stand up in court as being fair if it came to that). I would just have a talk to the tenant and explain while it's not the end of the world, it's not acceptable from your point of view and see what happens.

Quote from: eps501 on November 02, 2021, 05:44:23 PM
I would not like to have to distribute post and parcels for someone who is not supposed to be living there either.

Why is he not supposed to be there? According to @Farmer, the tenant's boyfriend has his own place and only spends some of the time at the girlfriend's.

Are you suggesting @eps501 that a tenant is not allowed to have a person with whom they are in a relationship (casual or otherwise), stay at their rented property?

How long each spends in the other's property is none of your business.

All that should matter to the LL is whether the tenant pays the rent on time, that they and their guests look after the property well, and that they return it to the LL at the end of the tenancy in the same condition (less wear and tear) as it was in when they moved in.

IMO, the proposed course of action is an unwarranted intrusion into a tenant's private life.


A couple of thought experiments...

1. What if all post was delivered directly to the tenants' flats rather than centrally and @Farmer wasn't involved at all. Would it be reasonable to object to the girlfriend receiving letters or parcels with her boyfriend's name on them and for @Farmer to write such a clause into the tenancy agreement?

2. What if there was no boyfriend involved at all but the tenant receives twice as many letters and parcels addressed to her as she does now? Would @Farmer be justified in writing a clause in the tenancy agreement that says she not permitted to receive that number of items?

The answer in each case is No.

I do fully agree about the right to privacy of the tenant.I suppose the number of dodgy tenants from the past has left me a bit paranoid when some things don't add up.I would not care how often the boyfriend was there,and  see that the odd courier parcel would arrive for convenience.I would wonder though why someone with his own address has chosen to get his general mail delivered elsewhere?

"...the boyfriend of one tenant uses her flat as his address for a good deal of his mail."

This statement is impossible to quantify. How does the Landlord know what proportion is being sent to a particular address? It could be a small fraction of the person's mail - it could just be Amazon Prime deliveries that he knows he'll get next day, and that he'll be there on that day (having fun playing "hide the sausage"). The term used is also entirely subjective. What the OP truly meant is that they're a bit of a busybody who has too much time on their hands and who has noticed something they admit they resent and that they think they can jump on. I don't think they can; it's too overbearing. I also don't think it's good business.

The OP has not returned, so they'll either have implemented their plan and be dealing with the fallout or be feeling sheepish about the notion.

@handyman

If he has his own place why not keep his own post and parcels delivered there? Unless he is more at hers in order to better collect the post and parcels delivered there rather than at his. I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption.

Of course I am not suggesting ''...that a tenant is not allowed to have a person with whom they are in a relationship (casual or otherwise), stay at their rented property?'' I am not that miserable ... yet.

"How long each spends in the other's property is none of your business." I always care about what goes on in my property including anything that could adversely affect it - that is ALWAYS my business.

"All that should matter to the LL is whether the tenant pays the rent on time, that they and their guests look after the property well, and that they return it to the LL at the end of the tenancy in the same condition (less wear and tear) as it was in when they moved in." I think it's reasonable for me to expect more wear and tear in the circumstance of more than a single tenant is living there.

"IMO, the proposed course of action is an unwarranted intrusion into a tenant's private life." Believe me, I never wish to intrude in any tenant's private life, no more than they wish to intrude into mine I hope, however it is always in my interest to be aware of what goes on in and on my property. Of course we may have different definitions about what is unwarranted or otherwise, which is all good and makes life more interesting, no?

Quote from: eps501 on November 03, 2021, 01:17:39 PMI think it's reasonable for me to expect more wear and tear in the circumstance of more than a single tenant is living there.

Especially, in this case, if it's a furnished property and you'd provided a bed... sofa... dining table.. any carpets... a kitchen worktop... windowsills...

Quote from: Hippogriff on November 03, 2021, 02:01:44 PM
Especially, in this case, if it's a furnished property and you'd provided a bed... sofa... dining table.. any carpets... a kitchen worktop... windowsills...

You forgot to mention the expensive chandelier 

Quote from: Hippogriff on November 03, 2021, 12:55:10 PM
What the OP truly meant is that they're a bit of a busybody who has too much time on their hands and who has noticed something they admit they resent and that they think they can jump on. I don't think they can; it's too overbearing. I also don't think it's good business.

Here here!

Quote from: Hippogriff
The OP has not returned, so they'll either have implemented their plan and be dealing with the fallout or be feeling sheepish about the notion.

Another one post wonder, alas.

Poor old Farmer.He asks an innocent question,and now there's the suggestion that he feels left out when games of "hunt the sausage" are being played. Beware of assumptions.This young woman and her friend might be members of the same church congregation,and like to spend quiet time together studying the bible and discussing the scriptures.You forgot the draining board.

Quote from: heavykarma on November 03, 2021, 04:38:02 PM
"hunt the sausage"

I understand the rules of "hide the sausage" but "hunt the sausage" is new to me.

Perhaps I had a sheltered upbringing.

They can be devilishly hard things to get hold of.