UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hello there,

I'm a landlord of a 1st floor flat. Recently, water from the pipe behind my kitchen units, leaked to the flat downstairs. There was no sign of water on my kitchen floor until the kitchen plinth was taken out. There was only a wet patch around the communal pipe visible after the plinth was taken out. After investigation by the plumber, it became clear that in my flat a long water pipe (sink, washing machine) got disconnected from the communal soil pipe.

No excessive damage to my flat was done. Other than dissembling the kitchen plinth.
That water leak affected the light fixture in the kitchen downstairs and its ceiling. I got sent 2 bills for part P qualified electrician (rented flat downstairs) of £220. I was told by the downstairs landlord to pay the costs because the water came from my flat and damaged his ceiling. I suggested meeting half way although the insurer told me that the landlord of the damaged flat should claim charges from his insurance. The downstairs landlord told me if I don't pay full amount he will take me to a small claims court.

Who is liable to cover the costs of electrician?

Report:
Agency of the flat downstairs sent me photos with a wet patch on the ceiling on Wednesday evening (first official communication). First plumber from Service management came on Thursday and located the leak. My plumber came on Friday morning and fixed the leak.
Am I liable to pay any charges of the flat downstairs even though I acted asap and the leak was fixed. The water leak was caused for unknown reasons. Either of the plumbers couldn't say why exactly my long white pipe would disconnect from the communal soil pipe. Other than the valve on communal pipe is fit upside down.

I appreciate some sort of guidance.

Thank you.

Can you explain, first, why you do not think you're 100% liable? Because I'm struggling.

I've read in a few places online that as I traced and fixed the leak in a timely manner then I am not liable. I was also told the same by my insurer & service Managment. I couldn't prevent the damage that happened to the flat downstairs since the pipe was out of my sight. Hence,the damage didn't happen due to my negligence.
Thank you for your reply and any guidance.

But someone else suffered due to an issue with your property. Now you want them to suffer more. Is them making a claim on their insurance, whether the two insurance companies get together or not, and your insurance pays everything, likely to increase their premium? I would think it probably would. Your suggestion that you each pay half seems outlandish, at least to me.

He is always likely to be on the receiving end, being the downstairs flat, bad stuff travels down... except maybe a fire.

Twenty years ago you would have said Rylands v Fletcher made you strictly liable for a leak like this but there appear many more grey areas now where negligence plays a part. The fact remains though that a water leak from your flat caused damage downstairs and surely from a moral standpoint you should at least pay the excess on the guys insurance? I personally would feel guilty if water from my property damaged my neighbours property and would want to ensure they didn't suffer a loss but perhaps I am a little old fashioned.

I don't think the OP 'gets' it... just trying to avoid expense which is naturally theirs, willing to let others suffer instead.

I hope not, but it sounds like it. If the bill itself is what is the problem, then maybe the OP should've engaged their own Electrician (and I'd kinda hope they were given a chance to do so - but that would be my only yielding caveat).

I'm not trying to avoid charges if I'm liable for them. I posted my question as I'm new flat owner and I don't yet know how legal responsibility is split. My first reaction was to pay as it's only fair. However, my insurer and service mng told me differently.

I'm seeking a legal advice on this as I also think it would be best to claim via insurance.

Check posts like this:
http://www.ashburnham-insurance.co.uk/claims/escape-of-water-leaks-in-flats/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/advice/3313700/Property-clinic-leaky-neighbours.html

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1544764

Don't you think that confuses things in here?

"Accordingly, one has to look to the general law under which a person is normally liable for damage caused to someone else if it arises out of his negligence or a nuisance caused by him.

In both cases, it would be necessary, in order to sue your neighbour successfully, to show that he was at fault in some way - in other words that he knew the pipe concerned was leaking or was likely to do so but took no action to repair it. This may be difficult in the case of a sudden unexpected leak from a pipe that was not readily visible."

I find that The Law often confuses things... your morals don't allow you to become confused, unless you want to be. Does that make sense?

It means, I think you're searching for a way not to pay what you, yourself, admit now goes against your first reaction, because you've been advised by Others! These Others are great, as they love to give advice like this... maybe people in the legal profession also like people making claims against others and starting cases? Maybe Insurers like people to make use of their 'services' to justify their existence?

We can actually exist without this approach in life, if we try our best and we do our best. Nobody is blaming you personally for a leak that occurred. Things sometimes go wrong, they just do. But the poor owner downstairs... well, how unfortunate. Time to stand up and say - "your problem was caused as a result of me having a problem, I'll take care of this".

I think that's what I'd do... but I admit that I would have liked to have dealt with the fallout myself rather than just get a bill.

Thank you for your recommendation.
I agree I would rather get my own builder to access the damage downstairs, but it's too late for that now. I will know I better for future.

I see really poor answers in this thread so Ive been compelled to register and address some of the nonsense here....

Quote from: barble2015 on December 16, 2015, 05:19:41 PM


No excessive damage to my flat was done. Other than dissembling the kitchen plinth.
That water leak affected the light fixture in the kitchen downstairs and its ceiling.

I got sent 2 bills for part P qualified electrician (rented flat downstairs) of £220.

£220 to fix a light fixture is ridiculous...that on its own is a good reason not to pay. The flat downstairs is also liable for their mistakes by not having their wires covered to prevent damage. Twin and earth cables are covered with a grey material that stops water getting into the inner cable and causing damage. If the owner below didnt have that, that's their fault, not to mention that now (2019) it could fail an electrical safety test if live wires are bare.

Fixing a light switch is a 10 minute DIY job, not something you need a part P electrician for.

QuoteI was told by the downstairs landlord to pay the costs because the water came from my flat and damaged his ceiling.

If no damage was caused to your flat, how does the ceiling in his flat get miraculously damaged? Just because the ceiling is wet doesnt mean its damaged...it will dry out and everything will be back to normal. If he's saying its damaged just because its wet thats ridiculous...give it time to dry out...

Even if a gallon of water came from your flat to downstairs, no permanent damage is going to be caused in any way...its called DRYING THINGS OUT which inevitably fixes almost every issue. If he's complaining that the paint got messed up, it can be solved for 5 quid by buying new paint and going over it.

QuoteI suggested meeting half way although the insurer told me that the landlord of the damaged flat should claim charges from his insurance. The downstairs landlord told me if I don't pay full amount he will take me to a small claims court.

Who is liable to cover the costs of electrician?

The insurer most likely deals with thousands of water leak claims every single day..they gave you good advice and you should take it. Listening to random opinions online from people who have no experience isn't a good strategy.

QuoteReport:
Agency of the flat downstairs sent me photos with a wet patch on the ceiling on Wednesday evening (first official communication). First plumber from Service management came on Thursday and located the leak. My plumber came on Friday morning and fixed the leak.
Am I liable to pay any charges of the flat downstairs even though I acted asap and the leak was fixed. The water leak was caused for unknown reasons. Either of the plumbers couldn't say why exactly my long white pipe would disconnect from the communal soil pipe. Other than the valve on communal pipe is fit upside down.

I appreciate some sort of guidance.

Thank you.

Water leaks which happen spontaneously are more similar to acts of nature than acts of negligence. The forces of water over time can cause pipes and other fixtures to become loose..every insurer knows this, and thats exactly why they're saying you're not at fault, because there is no negligence.

If I leave my clothes outside to dry and the rain comes and spoils it, do I take the weather man to the small claims court? The rain is an act of nature. The forces of water are acts of nature and no one can say when it will or won't happen.

Instead of trying to explain things to the downstairs landlord, give him your insurance details. Your insurer will then tell him to get lost.

Firstly,one of my flats had water come through the ceiling,when the washing machine upstairs leaked.It caused some disruption to my tenant,and a bit of paint and drying out  was required.I did not bother contacting my insurer,it would not have been worth the excess.Nor did I request anything from the owner,mainly because she is pretty obnoxious.That said,I don't see why Barble should make such a big issue out of this.Not everyone would have the DIY skills to fix the electrics,and maybe it was an emergency call-out rate.For the sake of £220 is it worth having bad feeling? If my fence blew over in a gale,causing damage to my neighbours lovely garden,it would not be my negligence,but I would feel it right to pay for the damage.   

Quote from: davet on March 13, 2019, 12:07:09 AMI see really poor answers in this thread so Ive been compelled to register and address some of the nonsense here....

Please do your utmost to register (sic) the dates in the thread you've gotten so worked up about.

Quote from: davet on March 13, 2019, 12:07:09 AM
I see really poor answers in this thread so Ive been compelled to register and address some of the nonsense here....


Water leaks which happen spontaneously are more similar to acts of nature than acts of negligence. The forces of water over time can cause pipes and other fixtures to become loose..every insurer knows this, and thats exactly why they're saying you're not at fault, because there is no negligence.

Not sure if you are just trolling here or what.  Just because damage is accidental it does not absolve you of blame if you caused it.

Quote from: davet on March 13, 2019, 12:07:09 AM
Instead of trying to explain things to the downstairs landlord, give him your insurance details. Your insurer will then tell him to get lost.

And you seriously think that if an insurance company are not going to pay out, that gets you off the hook ?

The flooded neightbour will be round to your door that evening,

I feel compelled to add that I have been a landlord for 20 years,and on top of my own experiences I have gained a lot of first-rate valuable knowledge on here.Another advantage that I  suspect I have over Davet is that I was brought up to have good manners.I hope Barble will ignore the yobbish "advice" he gave.

As the username hints at... the OP was last active here on Christmas Eve 2015. I suspect this particular issue is probably resolved but, then, I thought Brexit would be resolved.