UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi all,

I have recently received a court order to get my property back from the tenant after serving them Section 21 notice. The court order says:

1) The Defendant give the Claimant possession of property xxxx on or before 2 October 2024 on mandatory grounds
2) It is noted that under an Order made on mandatory grounds, the Court's power to suspend possession is restricted
3) The Defendant's to pay the Claimant's fixed cost by xxxxx
4) This order was made without a hearing. Within 14 days of its being served, either party may apply for it to be set aside or varied

I have two questions:

1) What does this sentence in clause 4 mean? Within 14 days of its being served, either party may apply for it to be set aside or varied. Does this mean I have to apply for bailiffs within 14 days if the tenant doesn't move out? Is there an expiry for the courts order? The tenant keeps saying they'll move out soon and I worry if I miss any deadlines to take action. Ideally, I don't want to get bailiffs involved and want to keep it amicable

2) Do I collect my cost of £391.00 directly from the tenant by showing them a receipt of the payment I made?

Thanks

Quote from: leicester_boy on October 13, 2024, 10:09:47 PMDo I collect my cost of £391.00 directly from the tenant by showing them a receipt of the payment I made?

Might the offer of a small cash inducement, i.e not requiring the tenant to pay your court costs, help them confirm a date ASAP and actually move out?

Although the tenant should pay your costs, it's sure to cause additional resentment if they have to do this as well as moving home.

NUmber 4 means that because there was no hearing, the tenant (or you, but I can't imagine why you would) can apply for a hearing to review the decision. The tenant would probably be advised to do this, regardless of their chance for success, because it would delay things for months and doesn't cost a lot.

You can apply for bailiffs when the possession order expires (the wording of number 1 looks odd).

You can try and collect the fee from the tenant, but normally a legal claim is required to try.

Quote from: HandyMan on October 14, 2024, 06:46:57 AM

Quote from: leicester_boy on October 13, 2024, 10:09:47 PMDo I collect my cost of £391.00 directly from the tenant by showing them a receipt of the payment I made?

Might the offer of a small cash inducement, i.e not requiring the tenant to pay your court costs, help them confirm a date ASAP and actually move out?

Although the tenant should pay your costs, it's sure to cause additional resentment if they have to do this as well as moving home.

Thanks. They are already benefiting each month by around £175 as I haven't increased their rent for a while.

Quote from: jpkeates on October 14, 2024, 09:29:24 AMNUmber 4 means that because there was no hearing, the tenant (or you, but I can't imagine why you would) can apply for a hearing to review the decision. The tenant would probably be advised to do this, regardless of their chance for success, because it would delay things for months and doesn't cost a lot.

You can apply for bailiffs when the possession order expires (the wording of number 1 looks odd).

You can try and collect the fee from the tenant, but normally a legal claim is required to try.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. When would the possession order expire? Would it be 2 October in this case?

I think so.

This sounds like a standard undefended claim, many Councils that owe a Tenant a duty of care demand the Tenant does not leave until the last possible moment. 

For some this means once the Tenant has been sent the Court Order they provide it to the Council and they start to take their Housing Duty more seriously.  For others, particularly London, they tell the Tenant not to leave until Bailiffs evict them, for County Court Bailiffs this can be six to twelve weeks. 
 
When you brought your claim you had an option to ask to the Court to allow you to escalate to High Court Enforcement (giving reasons why they should give this).  Now because you did not do that you would need to make a further application to the Court with no guarantee that they would deem the circumstances necessary.

Do not be expecting to get your costs back, sure on paper they are owed and you have six years to enforce the debt, but don't hold your breath.

For clause 4 the Tenant might write to the Court, explain that they have had profound mental health issues (providing medical evidence) and ask for a hearing on the matter. They can say that they were too mentally ill to respond to the S21 and could not get advice from Shelter or the Council despite their best efforts. 

Really you should have been communicating with your Tenant throughout, being as sympathetic as possible and asking them what their circumstances are, for example do they think they would be classed as a vulnerable Tenant by the Local Council.  If they have kids they will almost certainly be owed a Housing Duty by the Council.  Even so, the Council will put them through the grinder by giving them a Personal Housing Plan template and telling them they need to try and find a property in the private sector.

It is a long a complicated process but for the someone owed a duty there is an interim accommodation duty, a relief duty and the main duty.  Along the way there are all kinds of snakes and ladders, it really is a very stressful process, especially because if the Tenant does not obey all requirements the Council may deem them intentionally homeless or end their duty.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/homelessness_applications/homeless_application_process

If you understand the process and you understand your Tenants particular situation then you will be able to manage your expectations. 

Regardless of the Court Order, it is illegal to FORCEFULLY evict the Tenant yourself, this can only be done by County Court Bailiffs or High Court Enforcement Officers.

Understand that they may want to just go but the Council may be telling them to wait until you have exhausted the whole process, i.e. Bailiffs must evict them.

Quote from: leicester_boy on October 13, 2024, 10:09:47 PMHi all,

I have recently received a court order to get my property back from the tenant after serving them Section 21 notice. The court order says:

1) The Defendant give the Claimant possession of property xxxx on or before 2 October 2024 on mandatory grounds
2) It is noted that under an Order made on mandatory grounds, the Court's power to suspend possession is restricted
3) The Defendant's to pay the Claimant's fixed cost by xxxxx
4) This order was made without a hearing. Within 14 days of its being served, either party may apply for it to be set aside or varied

I have two questions:

1) What does this sentence in clause 4 mean? Within 14 days of its being served, either party may apply for it to be set aside or varied. Does this mean I have to apply for bailiffs within 14 days if the tenant doesn't move out? Is there an expiry for the courts order? The tenant keeps saying they'll move out soon and I worry if I miss any deadlines to take action. Ideally, I don't want to get bailiffs involved and want to keep it amicable

2) Do I collect my cost of £391.00 directly from the tenant by showing them a receipt of the payment I made?

Thanks

Quote from: David on October 15, 2024, 10:57:13 AMThis sounds like a standard undefended claim, many Councils that owe a Tenant a duty of care demand the Tenant does not leave until the last possible moment. 

For some this means once the Tenant has been sent the Court Order they provide it to the Council and they start to take their Housing Duty more seriously.  For others, particularly London, they tell the Tenant not to leave until Bailiffs evict them, for County Court Bailiffs this can be six to twelve weeks. 
 
When you brought your claim you had an option to ask to the Court to allow you to escalate to High Court Enforcement (giving reasons why they should give this).  Now because you did not do that you would need to make a further application to the Court with no guarantee that they would deem the circumstances necessary.

Do not be expecting to get your costs back, sure on paper they are owed and you have six years to enforce the debt, but don't hold your breath.

For clause 4 the Tenant might write to the Court, explain that they have had profound mental health issues (providing medical evidence) and ask for a hearing on the matter. They can say that they were too mentally ill to respond to the S21 and could not get advice from Shelter or the Council despite their best efforts. 

Really you should have been communicating with your Tenant throughout, being as sympathetic as possible and asking them what their circumstances are, for example do they think they would be classed as a vulnerable Tenant by the Local Council.  If they have kids they will almost certainly be owed a Housing Duty by the Council.  Even so, the Council will put them through the grinder by giving them a Personal Housing Plan template and telling them they need to try and find a property in the private sector.

It is a long a complicated process but for the someone owed a duty there is an interim accommodation duty, a relief duty and the main duty.  Along the way there are all kinds of snakes and ladders, it really is a very stressful process, especially because if the Tenant does not obey all requirements the Council may deem them intentionally homeless or end their duty.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/homelessness_applications/homeless_application_process

If you understand the process and you understand your Tenants particular situation then you will be able to manage your expectations. 

Regardless of the Court Order, it is illegal to FORCEFULLY evict the Tenant yourself, this can only be done by County Court Bailiffs or High Court Enforcement Officers.

Understand that they may want to just go but the Council may be telling them to wait until you have exhausted the whole process, i.e. Bailiffs must evict them.

Quote from: leicester_boy on October 13, 2024, 10:09:47 PMHi all,

I have recently received a court order to get my property back from the tenant after serving them Section 21 notice. The court order says:

1) The Defendant give the Claimant possession of property xxxx on or before 2 October 2024 on mandatory grounds
2) It is noted that under an Order made on mandatory grounds, the Court's power to suspend possession is restricted
3) The Defendant's to pay the Claimant's fixed cost by xxxxx
4) This order was made without a hearing. Within 14 days of its being served, either party may apply for it to be set aside or varied

I have two questions:

1) What does this sentence in clause 4 mean? Within 14 days of its being served, either party may apply for it to be set aside or varied. Does this mean I have to apply for bailiffs within 14 days if the tenant doesn't move out? Is there an expiry for the courts order? The tenant keeps saying they'll move out soon and I worry if I miss any deadlines to take action. Ideally, I don't want to get bailiffs involved and want to keep it amicable

2) Do I collect my cost of £391.00 directly from the tenant by showing them a receipt of the payment I made?

Thanks

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have been liaising with the tenant and had also encouraged them to involve council so they can help them with housing. Unfortunately, their local council concluded they are unable to help. Upon tenants request, I had also been searching for a suitable accommodation on their behalf. I have given them more time than needed by law to look for something else. In the past I have also helped them with providing letters to different government departments etc and I believe I have been very accommodating. They have now found a bigger place and looking to move in a matter of days.