UK Landlord Forum / Life

I'll go straight to the point. I have tenants that I would like to evict. They are good tenants but I want the property back. I am now trying with section 21, issued last week,  but I know already they will need more time to leave and I want the flat back asap. This might sound extreme but since the freeholder of the building is changing the external door locks, I considered not giving them the keys to make their life difficult and accelerate the process.
Is it legal to withhold keys? What repercussions could I suffer?

It would be considered illegal eviction so somewhere between 15 to 50k, plus legal costs. And it's a criminal offence.

Quote from: jj1 on July 15, 2024, 05:06:49 PMIs it legal to withhold keys? What repercussions could I suffer?

No, it isn't legal to withhold keys. It's a criminal offence, but it would also make your tenants rich if they chose a civil action - there are a large number of solicitors who'd be delighted to take that case on a no win no fee (conditional) basis.

There is no legal way of getting your property back quickly other than paying them to leave. If you are using a section 21 notice and the tenants are not prepared to cooperate, the average time to recover the property will be six months after the section 21 notice expires. It will be longer if you are in London.

It's best to accept that, and focus on making sure the section 21 notice is valid, or discussing with the tenant their price to move.

Quote from: jj1 on July 15, 2024, 05:06:49 PMI considered not giving them the keys to make their life difficult and accelerate the process.

You are a genuine idiot, and nasty with it - doing everything you can to move on "good tenants" with artificial urgency because it seems like your situation has changed. Only a low-life would even ask the question anywhere outside their own head. I'm all for a dose of pragmatism, but this isn't that. As hinted at, you have urgency... time to pay-to-play.

Quote from: jj1 on July 15, 2024, 05:06:49 PMI am now trying with section 21, issued last week

Are these the same tenants to whom you issued a Section 21 in May this year? https://www.landlordforumproject.co.uk/index.php?msg=38141

no, that's another matter.

I often take pity on Landlords who end up not only paying £40k+ in penalties and sanctions but £50k+ in legal fees for both sides and costs, but when I see yours reported I will laugh.

You are obviously not capable of empathy, any eviction is taking away the one thing that makes people feel secure, their home.  It is even worse if they have kids in local schools, they may not be able to afford a place locally with increasing rents so you end up disrupting their education, they may also lose their job if they have to move out the area.  For what? 

I might understand if you had some professional bad Tenants who had trashed the place, not paid rent for 10 months and so on, but you say they are good Tenants.

I do believe in Karma and so when your life turns to shit in what appears to be unrelated matters, look in the mirror and understand why.

You asked about repercussions, I had a case about 7 or 8 years ago where someone did something similar, the Police recognised that they could not kick the communal doors in and none of the other occupants would answer so they called the fire brigade.  They used a very interesting device I don't know what it is called but they expand it into the door frame and hit it with a sledge hammer, it takes out the whole door frame.  The Freeholder went nuts and made the Landlord pay all the costs to restore these massive doors, it took months.  The other Tenants of the building insisted on 24 hour security until the works were complete.

You might not be aware but anything to discourage a Tenant from the quiet enjoyment of the property can be deemed by a court as forced eviction.  I have had Tenants report broadband being cut, heating set low by an app, lowering pressure on water, one even moved into the HMO.  None of these cases ended well.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/43

I just hope that your Tenants end up contacting me so I can have some fun messing with your attempts to evict, I really do. 

I have Landlords not increasing rent to cover their mortgage because they do not want to lose good Tenants, they take the long view that the price of the property is still increasing and they will make gradual increases over the next few years.

I am sure if you had a sorrowful story of why you need the property back you would have mentioned it, because if you had a decent reason you would just throw money at the problem.

That is the only advice I can give you, meet with the Tenants explain why you need the property back and offer them six months rent if they leave in two months, put it in a legally binding agreement.  Pay their removal fees, do every nice thing you can to help them move, or just forget evicting them.

Quote from: jj1 on July 15, 2024, 05:06:49 PMI'll go straight to the point. I have tenants that I would like to evict.

They are good tenants but I want the property back.

I am now trying with section 21, issued last week,  but I know already they will need more time to leave and I want the flat back asap.

This might sound extreme but since the freeholder of the building is changing the external door locks, I considered not giving them the keys to make their life difficult and accelerate the process.

Is it legal to withhold keys? What repercussions could I suffer?

I' ll go straight to the point,  you are not only an arsehole but thick as 2  short planks. Hope this spiteful grubby plan gets you into big trouble. Shame on you.

What an awful person you are. I hope your tenants read this forum and take on some of the advice listed above.

Some of these comments are a bit harsh. It isn't the first time a landlord's had an idea to evict someone more quickly than the proper process allows, and they've, quite sensibly, asked for advice on a forum where they can explore the possible consequences before actually doing anything.

Out in the real world, there are a lot of landlord's who'd have acted regardless.

The thing is JPK, they have only worried about the possible penalties for themselves, apparently not a thought for the morality, nay common decency, of what they have in mind.  The previous query from this person gave the impression of a lazy, selfish absentee landlord, this confirms it.  As David says, one could have some sympathy if these were nightmare tenants,  but they aren'  t.   

Good point(s). I can't really defend the OP either.

Quote from: jpkeates on July 16, 2024, 09:52:23 AMthey've, quite sensibly, asked for advice on a forum where they can explore the possible consequences before actually doing anything.

The comments are harsh but they feel deserved.

The OP said:

Quote from: jj1 on July 15, 2024, 05:06:49 PMI considered not giving them the keys to make their life difficult and accelerate the process.
Is it legal to withhold keys? What repercussions could I suffer?

That's the part that I find most egregious.

The idea that making life difficult for your tenants (and "good tenants" at that!) is a suitable lever to use to encourage them to leave is contemptible.

You can't withhold keys from your tenants. It's illegal and could get you into serious trouble, like fines or jail time. Stick to the legal process with Section 21 and try to agree on a move-out date with them.

The parallels between what OP is describing and the situation I'm experiencing with my landlord are uncanny.

My landlord even offered me a £1000 to leave in three weeks - the very day after this thread was created. What a coincidence!

In their other thread, OP described not having a valid (failed) EICR and having it done late, questioning whether this would invalidate an S21.

I was made aware after the Environmental Health Officer an HHSRS inspection in June, that the EICR done on our property months ago had failed and our landlord had not acted on it. Five emails later, our landlord is still refusing to issue me with the original copy of that certificate.

Following the HHSRS assessment, there's now an improvement notice in place for our property. The S21 was issued after I formally complained to the landlord and the Council.

In that thread, OP said they live abroad: My landlord and his partner also live abroad. They too want the flat back quickly. In our situation, so they can cash in.

Since the EHO became involved, they've insisted the Freeholder adds new locks to the door. He's now been served with an improvement notice too. He's not fitted the locks yet, so who knows what will happen?!

My landlord has tried to make life impossible since deciding he wants the property back. One trick was to take our personal items, which we'd arranged to have collected that evening, and use them to block the entrance to the decking the EHO had ordered be decommissioned, essentially depriving us of them.

He's involved neighbours and disclosed our sensitive medical information. I have complained formally to the ICO.This was after the landlord failed to respond to my complaint.

I also have him on video stating that because of his frustration and anger around being made to do repairs, 'he couldn't control himself and it wasn't good'. This was after the EHO ordered he repair windows that have gaps so big you can see daylight through them. I was alone with him in the flat when he said this.

To be honest, I was surprised he attended at all. In six years he's turned up twice previous to this, once to tell us that he would seek possession if we complained about disrepair or the unprotected deposit. Even after the EHO ordered the leaking door be fixed, he patched it up with foam padding and Gorilla tape.

He's never done a full of inspection of the property in the whole time we've been here.

There were serious issues with gas safety throughout the tenancy, including large void periods. There was no gas safety certificate upon occupation and on closer inspection, there was no Gas Safe Engineer number recorded on the certificate issued a few weeks after the tenancy began.

A quick call to the Gas Safe helpline and we were told they could find no record of that engineer being registered at that time. That chap was well known to the landlord - what are the chances?

After a large void period of over a year, where he tried to pass on the responsibility of getting the inspection organised to us, the landlord eventually got a new gas engineer in. This one was actually registered.

This gas engineer immediately condemned the flue. There was a carbon monoxide leak and, when he removed it, it was obvious home made repairs with duct tape had been done. We have photographs of the defunct flue from when it was removed. I made the HSE aware and they are doing a full audit.

On the plus side the ventilation from the ill-fitting windows probably saved our lives.

There are so many other issues present, I could go on all day - water leaking into light switches, a rat infestation where the landlord told me, in writing, to 'starve the cats and let them loose' as a solution (I organised pest control to resolve this), no EPC existing for the property until just before he issued an S21.

There's so much more, but you probably get the gist.

We are looking for other property. I don't want to stay here a moment longer than necessary. But we live in an area where property is scarce and even as a professional with a good income, savings and history of always paying rent on time and caring for the property, it's proving difficult.

I am lucky in lots of ways, though. I'm reasonably well educated and have a lot of support. One of my best friends is a solicitor who works in the legal department for a different council. One of her roles is preparing cases against negligent landlords. She won't act for me (conflict of interest) but her support has been invaluable. She has connected us with a no-win, no-fee solicitor who is very keen to take on this case.

I'm not sure if our landlord will proceed to court, or even if he'll get it through the door, given the absence of gas safety certificates and the current Improvement Notice, but if he does, we're ready with a fully evidenced defence. We intend to make an application for compensation at this point. Hopefully the judge will be amenable.

So it seems my landlord and OP came out of exactly the same mould. And I thought he was one of a kind!

In what has been a massively stressful time, the responses on this thread are really encouraging, though.

Thank you for that insight into your situation RetroRedFox.

It's landlords like yours (whoever they may be) that unfairly tarnish all those who do follow the rules, endeavour to be fair to, and work with, their tenants.

I hope you do find somewhere new to live soon and that your case is resolved in a way that, as much as it can, compensates you for what for you have gone through with your awful landlord.

The sheer stubborn arrogance of such people is amazing. It is thanks to people like this that life has got harder for landlords,  thus creating the availability of affordable rentals.  No amount of legislation will deter people like this, they sit somewhere on the sociopathic spectrum,  but tenants should always attempt to hit them where it hurts, in the wallet.Go for it!   

When I eventually stop contributing to landlord forums, the real plus will be that I can be confident that I won't inadvertently be helping this kind of s**ty landlord.