UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hello, I have a problem that I would very much like to get your opinion on. I have been living in a one-bedroom flat for quite a long time, always paid the rent on time, was quiet, didn't cause any trouble. It was alright until three years ago, when a woman in her 50s moved in to the room in the flat next door, the room next to my bedroom. (That flat has the same landlady as mine).There had been several different tenants in that room before and I hadn't had any problems. The room was let to this tenant, I'll call her 'Maria', on the understanding that it would be just her living there.  But on the very first night she moved in she had her 'boyfriend' with her.

These people are living on benefits and stay up all night every night and it soon became evident that the 'boyfriend' was a nasty abusive individual who would go into these spectacular tirades at 3 in the morning, ranting and cursing for hours on end,, shouting "Oi! Oi!" over and over again, bullying and abusing, while the woman wailed and sobbed pathetically.. When I told the landlady about this she went into an email exchange with the woman and it turned out that she shrugged off the abuse, she made excuses for him and said he was under stress etc. These tirades of abuse continued. The 'boyfriend' was banned from the house but he kept coming back anyway. 'Maria' kept telling the landlady that 'soon' he would be moving out, but of course it never materialised. Anyway, the landlady told me that when the two month 'trial period' was up, their contract would not be renewed and they would be leaving. But the two month period came and went and they were still there.

I emailed the landlady and, incredibly, she and 'Maria' had come to some agreement without telling me and Maria 'promised' that the noise and abuse would not continue, and she had been allowed to stay. I was stunned. It was like a slap in the face. Of course the abuse continued. Over the next few months the police were called to their flat THREE TIMES by three separate tenants in the house who heard him screaming and yelling and thumping about. But 'Maria' never pressed charges so the police couldn't do anything.  I complained to the landlady that their presence in the house was causing me distress and anxiety and interfering with my sleep, and all she did was tell me to record any future noise at night for evidence at some vague future eviction. After a while the abuse got less frequent, but these people were up all night, walking about, banging doors, talking loudly, going in and out at 4 and 5am, making it impossible for me to sleep. I had to sleep on the settee in the lounge. But then, after the tenants in the flat upstairs left, 'Maria' was allowed by the landlady to take tenancy of that flat, as well as the room she was in before. I could not believe it. She stamps about upstairs all through the night, back and forth, constant restless motion, making it difficult for me to sleep or relax. So I moved from my bedroom to the lounge to get away from the noise, and now I was being disturbed by noise all night in the lounge, too. When I complained to the landlady she said there was nothing she could do about people moving about at night.

Obviously the woman is claiming benefits for the flat and the 'boyfriend' is claiming benefits for the room within the flat, so the landlady gets two lots of rent from them now, and with this cosy financial arrangement it's like I just don't matter. They pay more rent than me now, so I am irrelevant. All this time the landlady has strung me along saying that after the 'lockdown' period ended they would be evicted, but they are still there and they are still up all night every night and I am still sleeping in the lounge. The landlady doesn't even reply to complaints about the noise anymore. As long as she gets her money,  it doesn't matter about me. I feel wronged. I feel that my rights and dignity as a tenant have been trampled on. I feel that these people have been rewarded for their bad behaviour, by being given the upstairs flat and preferential treatment, while I, who have been a good tenant all these years, have been treated like nothing.  I may be naive, but I feel that if a tenant informs the landlord/lady that they are being repeatedly kept awake by excessive noise all through the night, and having to listen to horrible abuse and tirades, and that this is causing them distress and interfering with their life, then the response of the landlord should be 'this is unacceptable. we can't have a tenant having their sleep disrupted, this needs to be sorted out as a matter of urgency'. I have read that noise at night that is persistent, recurrent and is causing sleep disruption to other tenants is classed as anti-social behaviour. Should a landlord not root out anti-social behaviour in the bud, not tolerate it and reward it and ignore those who complain about it? They have been there for three years now, I thought I had a good relationship with my landlady but this has hurt me, it feels like an insult. What do you think?

The Landlady is under no obligation to interfere with your neighbours. And she should not.

I know you think she does... especially seeing as she is the Landlady of both properties (which, at first, might muddy the waters)... but you are sending your concerns and complaints in the wrong direction. This Landlady is not the parent of you, or the other Tenants, nor their Carer, nor in a position of responsibility over them. Consider what direction you would be taking your complaints in if you and the other Tenant here were both owner-occupiers? If there was no Landlady, who would you complain to then?

Once you know the answer to that, you know the answer to your current situation. You will get appropriate advice from who you end up contacting and a process to follow.

Leave the Landlady out of it.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you say it does not matter about you The landlady is happy getting her rent.It makes no business sense to me that she is prepared to lose good tenants because of these people.It is a tricky situation,and I have in the past given notice to a couple of tenants whose behaviour was impacting very badly on others,some my tenants, some not.That said, there is no way one can be sure of getting good neighbours,whether you are an owner or a tenant. 

You can escalate matters,involve the council and your M.P. That might work,but honestly would you not be better off just moving out? You may end up worse off of course,but it is worth the risk. 

Quote from: Hippogriff on June 09, 2022, 08:13:05 AM
The Landlady is under no obligation to interfere with your neighbours. And she should not.

I know you think she does... especially seeing as she is the Landlady of both properties (which, at first, might muddy the waters)... but you are sending your concerns and complaints in the wrong direction. This Landlady is not the parent of you, or the other Tenants, nor their Carer, nor in a position of responsibility over them. Consider what direction you would be taking your complaints in if you and the other Tenant here were both owner-occupiers? If there was no Landlady, who would you complain to then?

Once you know the answer to that, you know the answer to your current situation. You will get appropriate advice from who you end up contacting and a process to follow.

Leave the Landlady out of it.

You seem to be giving me a stern lecture as if I have done something wrong.

Have I done something wrong by not wanting to be kept awake by abuse and shouting in the small hours of the night?

Your tone would seem to suggest so.

Quote from: heavykarma on June 09, 2022, 12:06:34 PM
I think you hit the nail on the head when you say it does not matter about you The landlady is happy getting her rent.It makes no business sense to me that she is prepared to lose good tenants because of these people.It is a tricky situation,and I have in the past given notice to a couple of tenants whose behaviour was impacting very badly on others,some my tenants, some not.That said, there is no way one can be sure of getting good neighbours,whether you are an owner or a tenant. 

You can escalate matters,involve the council and your M.P. That might work,but honestly would you not be better off just moving out? You may end up worse off of course,but it is worth the risk.

Oh that's so helpful. Thanks a lot.

Quote from: touchstone on June 09, 2022, 03:24:23 PM
You seem to be giving me a stern lecture as if I have done something wrong.

Your tone would seem to suggest so.

Hippogriff hasn't given you a stern lecture. Just some plain speaking to point you in the right direction.

Quote
Have I done something wrong by not wanting to be kept awake by abuse and shouting in the small hours of the night?

You are missing the point:

- Of course you haven't "done anything wrong by not wanting to be kept awake...". Nobody wants that.

- The thing is that the landlady a) doesn't care, and b) is not actually responsible for the behaviour of your neighbours (no matter how much you want this to be the case). She isn't obliged to intervene in this dispute between you and the other tenants.

Since the landlady is clearly not on your side and isn't going to do the morally right thing, then you are in a no win situation. As Heavykarma has suggested, it might be better for you just to find somewhere else. At least then, the landlady will get the message, and maybe will lose a bit of rent if it takes her a while to find a new tenant.

Quote from: touchstone on June 09, 2022, 03:24:23 PMYou seem to be giving me a stern lecture as if I have done something wrong.

Have I done something wrong by not wanting to be kept awake by abuse and shouting in the small hours of the night?

Your tone would seem to suggest so.

I am advising you that you are wasting your own time and effort by complaining in the wrong direction because you think someone in the world should care about you. In that you have done something wrong, yes. Why even attempt that avenue? It doesn't make any sense. Your expectations (in life?) may be too high. You seem astounded that the Landlady and 'Maria' had come to some arrangement "without telling you"... why on Earth would she tell you? I don't (wouldn't) talk to any of my Tenants about other Tenants. Any business arrangement between them is private. The Landlady, by your own description, appears to be doing everything right... apart from engaging with them via email at the beginning (I'd suggest that was a mistake on her part - she should've conveyed to you what I am conveying to you now).

There are proper channels to handle what you are experiencing. Your Landlady is not one. An Internet forum is not really one, either, but at least we can point you away from the wrong direction. You should use these channels, they exist for a reason. This way you can stop expending your effort pointlessly. It will take a [sea-]change of heart for the Landlady to start 'helping' you in the way you want... basically, the logical conclusion of that being someone losing their home.

Good luck. I suggest you have all you need from here.

Hippogriff's last post is spot on.

You can complain to the right people or decide that your landlord is not being supportive of your situation and move out.

i've been stuck in rubbish place years ago, an alcoholic in flat downstairs on his backside all day,

he would moan i wake him up when i getting ready for work, i told landlord and he was pretty toothless i realized he would never do anything,

i set a plan to move and was glad as found much better place and no worry of likes of him around,

it is hard but as others say, if landlord like that not much is going to change it would have come to blows had i stayed i put up with enough from him,

but at the end of the day you will move forwards and they will not

Quote from: tomjones on June 24, 2022, 07:02:17 PMhe would moan i wake him up when i getting ready for work, i told landlord and he was pretty toothless i realized he would never do anything,

You've missed the point.

Why do you even have an expectation the Landlord would (should) do anything? One adult (Landlord) shouldn't be able to exert power and control over another adult (Tenant) like you describe, never mind there being any obligation to do so.