UK Landlord Forum / Life

I have received a court judgement which basically says this.

1. I need to pay claimant (landlord) a sum of £6500  by 4pm 12th of Jan.

2. Claimant to pay me deposit of £1980 plus 2 times deposit (£4960) by 4pm 12th of Jan.

before I come to my question, note the typo in 2) above - for two times 1980 is 3960 but courts had a typo and says 4960.

so my questions are

a) which version of the judgement is enforced ? wording of 'two times deposit' or the numerical value?

b) depending on the version, it is me who owes landlord (if numerical) or I owe him (if wording) - so do we pay the difference?

c) Does the above judgment mean I already got a CCJ?

d) what happens if no payment is received by each party by the date? (I don't think landlord will pay)

Thanks

That is a county court judgement, so yes you have one.
As does the landlord - which is a very odd outcome, did one or both of you annoy the judge?

a) I don't think anyone but a judge can decide that. My guess is that the typo is the error and the correct figure is £3960, but that's just a guess,
b) I think that's up to you and the landlord. There's no automatic right to offset debts like that, so if you don't agree something different, technically you both have to pay each other the amount.
c) Yes. But if you pay what you owe and (I think) the court is advised by who owes the money, it won't be registered anywhere.
d) It would normally be registered. But if the landlord doesn't pay, it will be very difficult for them to enforce their claim. And vice versa.

But, to be honest, I've never seen this outcome before. Normally the court does the offset and one person is ordered to pay the balance to the other.
I don't know how the one judgement is going to be registered twice.

thanks jpkeats.

I don't think communicating with landlord is an option as he is not a sensible person and will not engage constructively.

is it correct that if I pay it within one month, I can ask CCJ to be removed ? that one month starts from 12th Jan as per the order or the date the order is dated?

I am happy to pay the difference, but I am not sure if that would be enough to convince the court to remove the CCJ.

I am not sure how best to proceed in these circumstance. any advice, sign-posting would be greatly appreciated!

and what is the procedure landlord supposed to follow to enforce CCJ ? how will the fact he has not paid me be taken into account please?

I think by the 12th.Jan you will already have had a month to pay.If not paid,you will have an outstanding CCJ against your name.This can be removed if you pay at any time,though credit checks can unearth them in the future I think.In your situation I would pay the difference immediately,and hope that is the end of it.You should have details on the court documents of advice available by phone or online. The landlord can pay a further fee to have matters passed to the court bailiffs if you don't pay,and you can do the same.Given the amounts involved this would not be worth the effort in my opinion.My only knowledge is from bringing a claim against a builder,who has a whole list of CCJs which don't bother him.For most people though a CCJ can have bad consequences. 

Quote from: heavykarma on January 06, 2023, 09:11:18 AM...I think.In your situation I would pay the difference immediately,and hope that is the end of it...

Agreed on alacrity, but it feels like there's an outstanding lack of clarity on the amount here. You wouldn't want to rush and pay too much and then find out you needn't have (and couldn't get it back). And, also ignoring the actual discrepancy, is it even acceptable to elect to "pay the difference"... I cannot tell, never having been in this situation before. You'd assume it would be - but it clearly says it is expected there are two payments, going either way, and the assumption of common sense getting in the way worries me. Especially if the objective now is trying to avoid things going on records. I apologise if I am adding dubiety to this.

Back when I did two weeks of work experience at NatWest bank in the early 90s, one of the things I learned and has stuck with me is the precedence of words vs. numbers on cheques. Remember those? I was told the reason for writing the words and the numbers was a precursor to our 2FA type stuff today... but in the case where there was a mismatch - the words overruled the numbers. It was supposed to be a week. I was invited back because I was really that good at it (and some girl had gone off on long-term 'sick').

Quote from: Hippogriff on January 06, 2023, 09:48:27 AM
Back when I did two weeks of work experience at NatWest bank in the early 90s,

This was you, wasn't it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEjKLlja96U 

Phwoar! Even then he was a ladies man.Love the hair gel.

I am getting confused and really do not know how to proceed.

where can I get solid advice on this please? any particualr type of legal people I look for ?

I looked at the N443 form that needs to be filled if I want to remove the CCJ (not sure one already exists for me to remove) and the form says money should be paid in full and I have the evidence...

also, what a party much do if the money they are owed as per the judgement is not paid ?

Have you used the information you  already have to get information on the phone or online? I am assuming you had the judgement around 12th.December,so you can't keep wasting time.If you don't want a CCJ you need to pay the money.If the other party does not pay,he will get a CCJ against his name.You owe the rent,so why don't you just pay it?

I am happy to pay the difference..but landlord insists I make the full payment, but he would not make the payment he owes me!

I do not want to pay him and then try to get the money I owe from him by going through courts again - knowing him, he is someone who does not like part with money.

also, even if I pay the difference, I think I may have trouble convincing the court, the debt been settled as per N443, they expect evidence of 'full payment'.

is there a way for me to pay the difference and avoid getting the CCJ recorded?

Quote from: carm on January 06, 2023, 07:41:41 PM
I am happy to pay the difference..

if I pay the difference, I think I may have trouble convincing the court, the debt been settled as per N443, they expect evidence of 'full payment'.

is there a way for me to pay the difference and avoid getting the CCJ recorded?

Have you actually tried asking the court how they would view payment of the difference? i.e whether doing that would be sufficient to simultaneously discharge your and the landlord's debt?

Only the court can tell you how it would view this course of action.

It's irrelevant what our opinions are.

I'd try the Citizens Advice Bureau, because I think you need someone with hands on experience of this.
I am concerned that the actual order is defective and that you'll need clarity from the court.

There's probably a form that's necessary, but writing to the court and querying the order itself might be enough.

Quote from: Simon Pambin on January 06, 2023, 10:21:08 AMThis was you, wasn't it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEjKLlja96U 

This wasn't me, no... but I absolutely accept that this will only cause more suspicion as Super Heroes never admit to it, do they? Not at first. Only when shot.

He was 100% correct though... it's not all work-work-work.

Hi all,

an interesrting situation has developed on this and hoping someone would be able to advice.
before that some facts
- I paid the full sum (6500) within 30days
- landlord paid me what he was due
- courts confirmed file is mark as paid back 3 months ago.

Now out of blue, enforcement notice has been sent against the other defendant on this case (we were joint tenants on the agreement) asking for 6500 + enforcement charges again !!

how this is even possible, how did the courts allow this and what I should do now..

no point talking to landlord as he is clearly dellusional..what action can I take against him ?

thanks

I don't see how the landlord is delusional.The court upheld his claim against you.As for the current situation,surely it is up to the other defendant to challenge this. How much was your total debt,was it £13k? 

no, courts only ordered both the defendants to pay 6.5k which was paid and they only confirmed the judgement has been marked as settled and no CCJ is registered in the Register of Fine (settled within 30 days)...

surely if there is judgement again joint tenants on the agreement for the same period then one of them paying the full should be enough?

before issuing writ of control, doesn't courts that issue them check if it was paid or not?

now, what actions can I take against this landlord ?

Are you sure that this is not some error on the part of the courts?  Is it clear that the landlord has made this additional claim since the matter was settled? The action you take should be to present the facts/evidence in writing to the landlord and the courts, and wait to see how they respond.

looks like courts have made a mistake..contacted them but no response yet.

is it even possible for courts to make such a drastic mistake?

don't think landlord made another claim..then surely we would have been notified by way of some paperwork.?

As  JPK stated recently,the court system is well and truly FUBAR in this country.It is totally possible that this is a mistake.If the landlord had launched a new claim you would have had formal notices by post. You really should inform the landlord,he may need to contact the court to find out what is going on.

can't believe courts could do serious mistake like this...

how do I complain aaginst this?

talking with landlord is not an option, as he is dellusional and he expects 6.5k for each of us for the same rental period..what actions can I take again thim as I feel that is the only thing would stop him as he is completely an unreasonable person...

You can complain all you like,it won't bother them.I am confused,you said you did not think the landlord had taken any further action,now you seem to be saying he has done just that.If you have documents to show the matter is closed as far as the court is concerned I would just do nothing. There are two sides to every story,it is not a sign that the landlord is "delusional" if all he did was get you  to pay large rent arrears.   

what I meant was, landlord has taken action to instruct bailiffs despite we paying him the money in full.. I was only asking what action we can take against him for doing so.

I think he simply thinks both the tenants need to pay him 6.5k each for the same rental period - so two joint tenants signs a rental agreement for 1300 pcm , he thinks each of us has to pay 1300 pcm = 2600 in total - this is how dellusional he is..