UK Landlord Forum / Life

hope you all are well.

We had a fixed term 12 month tenancy that ended on the 25th of October 2022 and I guess it rolled into a periodic.

landlord has now served s21 notice, but we want to leav early anyway as the repairs were not done properly by the agent.

The s21 expires on the 27th of March 2023. But we want to leave before that, ideally next month.

what are my options please? I pay rent monthly due on 1st of every month - when should the valid notice end if I have to give notice.

thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your answeres/advice.

If the tenancy has become periodic because if the wording of the contract - usually something like there's an initial (rather than a  "fixed" term) it will depend on the contract.
If it's a periodic tenancy because of the law, the key thing is the rental period, which usually ends on the day of the month the fixed term ends. And then the notice is a minimum of a month, ending on the last day of the rental period.

Otherwise, it's what you can agree with the landlord. If they've given notice, if you don't leave they'd have to go to court to evict you, so there's every chance they might agree to a compromise.

If you want to leave sooner than a month then I would contact the landlord.  Having served notice it is very likely that they will happily agree to this.

thanks all for the replies. I will contact the landlord. But I woulld also like to know where I stand from a legal point of view and my obligations.

So, the contract says fixed term for 12 months, ending on the 25th of October 2022 and the rent is due on 1st of every month. (the periodic tenancy would have started on the 26th of October 2022)

The same contract says, the notice should be given for one month, with end DAY one day before the rent is due.

so, should I serve the notice to end on the 29th of February 2024 (as on the first of March, the rent would be due) or is on 26th of March as that is the earliest date I can give notice with full one month?

essentially, the confusion I have is, which date matters here, the periodic tenancy end date OR the rent due date?

normally it is the tenany period, but my contract seems to mention the day the rent is due. so just wanted to confirm.

thanks

When do you want to leave?  Talk to the landlord first, you may be overthinking this. Realistically as long as you don't leave with rent arrears there should be no repercussions. I have been very flexible with tenants who leave earlier or later than the "correct"  dates.

Quote from: jpkeates on January 30, 2024, 12:00:14 AMIf the tenancy has become periodic because if the wording of the contract - usually something like there's an initial (rather than a  "fixed" term) it will depend on the contract.

so the contract says 12 months, no word 'initial', so it is the rental period that is applicable here?

the contract also says, this in terms of ending the tenancy.

"Giving notice at the end of the fixed term
You must give us at least one month's notice in writing when you want to end the tenancy. The notice must
not end before the last date of the tenancy set out in clause B5 and must end on the day before the rent is
due. You will still be legally responsible for paying the rent and for all other responsibilities under this
agreement until the notice ends and you have moved out of the premises"

rent is due on the first day of every month. but, if it is perriodic by law, then it would have started on the 26th October (next day fixed term ended).

so my notice should end on which day?

I will contact my landlord through their agent, but want to know my legal position first in case agents tells me something rubbish as they normally do- it is useful to know this anyway.

Could you tell us what the contract says about the "term" and what happens when it ends.

Quote from: jpkeates on January 31, 2024, 08:10:40 AMCould you tell us what the contract says about the "term" and what happens when it ends.

term is 12 months as stated in the contract and it does not specify what happens when it ends. Just the information on how to give notice when ending the tenancy which I had given above.

In which case you've got a statutory periodic tenancy and the notice period in the contract is now void.

Your minimum period of notice is one month but it has to end on the last day of a tenancy period, which sounds like the 25th of the month. So the soonest you could end the tenancy by giving valid notice today (31 January 2024) would be the 25th of March 2024.

Which is pretty much what the tenancy agreement is probably trying to say, but the landlord's messed up the dates.

Quote from: jpkeates on January 31, 2024, 12:11:36 PMIn which case you've got a statutory periodic tenancy and the notice period in the contract is now void.

Your minimum period of notice is one month but it has to end on the last day of a tenancy period, which sounds like the 25th of the month. So the soonest you could end the tenancy by giving valid notice today (31 January 2024) would be the 25th of March 2024.

Which is pretty much what the tenancy agreement is probably trying to say, but the landlord's messed up the dates.

I contacted landlord's agents, they say, it must end on the last day of the month as rent is due on 1st of every month. So legally when should be by end date be?

since agent's who act on behalf of landlord (notice also should be sent to agent), can I end the tenancy on the 29th of Feb legally by serving notice today?

also, for tenancy contract, how does the law view 4 weeks/1 month ?

The agent's wrong, but if they're happy with it, your notice will be accepted and that makes it valid.

My answer is correct legally if the fixed term ends on the 25th of the month. The tenancy periods aren't dictated by the rent due date (although it's conventionally the first day of the tenancy period). It's a common mistake.

The law doesn't have a view of 4 weeks vs a month, they're not the same, other than three February's out of four.

Quote from: jpkeates on January 31, 2024, 01:32:42 PMThe law doesn't have a view of 4 weeks vs a month, they're not the same, other than three February's out of four.

I did not get this, sorry, could you explain this, February also has 4 weeks?

The reason I asked this is, because I see this template in Shelter website. It says 'I am giving one month notice and then in the saving clause it says 4 weeks, so wanted to understand why..

To: [landlord or agent's name and address]

From: [your name and address]

I am giving 1 month's notice to end my tenancy as required by law.

I will be leaving [property address] on [tenancy end date], or on the day when a complete period of my tenancy ends next after 4 weeks from the day this notice is served.

Signed: [your signature]

The saving clause is intended to cover the tenant if there's any disagreement about the end date - or the tenant doesn't know when it is  (for example, if there's no tenancy agreement or they don't have access to a copy).

Notice has to be clear and unambiguous to be valid, so there can't be any ambiguity about the date, so you can't just say I'll end the tenancy at the end of the next tenancy period, you should say which one. So the four weeks covers that off. That's always going to be the end of the next tenancy period, after a minimum of a month's notice.

As your notice is going to end on the "wrong" date, you shouldn't use this saving clause, because it will make the end date ambiguous.

It is a shame that you tie yourself in knots when it has been explained both legally and by mutual agreement as heavykarma tried to show.

For example, if you contacted the Landlord/Agent and said

"Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing in reference to the section 21 you served which expires on March 31st 2024.

I have managed to secure new accommodation with the Council but they need me to take occupancy in 14 days and I need to inform them within 24 hours, otherwise they will give it to someone else.

Are you prepared to accept 14 days notice by mutual agreement?  This would mean I would leave on 14th February 2024 and pay rent to that day. 

Please confirm your acceptance of this in writing. 

Failing this I might not be able to leave on the last day of the Section 21 as the Council told me they usually require me to wait until a Court issues a Possession Order and the subsequent eviction by County Court bailiffs.

I would appreciate your immediate response

Yours faithfully

A N Tenant"


In this example you both mutually agree to end it early and to only pay rent to the specified date.

I only mention this for the sake of others reading this post.

Quote from: heavykarma on January 30, 2024, 01:01:16 PMWhen do you want to leave?  Talk to the landlord first, you may be overthinking this. Realistically as long as you don't leave with rent arrears there should be no repercussions. I have been very flexible with tenants who leave earlier or later than the "correct"  dates.

Quote from: carm on January 31, 2024, 02:46:44 PM

Quote from: jpkeates on January 31, 2024, 01:32:42 PMThe law doesn't have a view of 4 weeks vs a month, they're not the same, other than three February's out of four.

I did not get this, sorry, could you explain this, February also has 4 weeks?

The reason I asked this is, because I see this template in Shelter website. It says 'I am giving one month notice and then in the saving clause it says 4 weeks, so wanted to understand why..

To: [landlord or agent's name and address]

From: [your name and address]

I am giving 1 month's notice to end my tenancy as required by law.

I will be leaving [property address] on [tenancy end date], or on the day when a complete period of my tenancy ends next after 4 weeks from the day this notice is served.

Signed: [your signature]