UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi
My husband is a guarantor for our daughter and boyfriend.
The landlord (private, not an agency) has already done referencing on my husband - including certification from his accountant as he is self-employed.
Now he is demanding that my husband drives from Suffolk to Wales to sign the paperwork so it can be witnessed.
My husband is guarantor for our son's accommodation at uni and has never had to do a wet signature - always been done electronically.
Landlord has said the form requires a wet signature and witness. He has emailed it us reluctantly saying we can do it over here IF we have it witnessed and stamped by a solicitor.
Our solicitor - decent firm - say this isn't something they normally do for a form such as this, they'd have to open a case file and wouldn't witness without giving advice.
We haven't had this much issue with signatures/witness when buying/selling properties!
Can anyone advise if this is OTT?
We don't want to cost our daughter the house and if absolutely necessary we will drive over, but it seems bonkers
Thank you

Think about the question you're asking...

You're asking strangers on the Internet to give you advice (correct or otherwise) that you will try to use to change someone's mind? If you don't play by the book (really, by the requirements that have been imposed upon you) as Guarantors at this stage... what confidence will the other party have that you will in any way fulfil the obligations placed upon you in case of it all going wonky down the line? Little, I'd say. It may well not make any sense, and be completely wasteful, inefficient and onerous, but you're explicitly asking for the tail to wag the dog at this early stage.

On a practical level, to secure the property, you realistically need to do whatever satisfies the landlord, however weird.

But, this is a bit of a red flag (speaking personally, and accepting that letting in Wales is really complicated at the moment). Student lets don't work like this. If a wet signature's required, they happen by post. No one is driving all over the country to sign contracts (and all student contracts have guarantors). So I think I'd be very concerned about the landlord.

Two other comments (I can't promise they're helpful). First of all, it's not normal for one party to require a deed be witnessed by a solicitor. That's really unusual. It can be useful for some purposes, but this doesn't seem to be one of them.

And, secondly, your solicitor is taking the pi55. Witnessing a document (with an id check - picture ID and invoice copy) is something that they should do for a tenner (I think that there's a law society limit for the job). And, if they've done it already when taking you on as a client (like mine, for example), they should do it for free. There's not a chance in hell they're opening a case reference for something like this. It's late and I've had a glass of wine, but I'd make a note to change solicitors going forward, whatever the other outcome. That's not what they should be telling you (in my anonymous internet opinion).

I have not had a drink ( it's a bit early even for me ) but I agree with JPK about your solicitor. I went into the bank I have been with all my life around 15 years ago to pay off one of the mortgages by bank transfer. This was before online banking, and all the stuff about ID had not really registered with me. They would not budge, and I did not want the faff of coming back again. My solicitor nearby took 2 minutes to give me a bible, and I swore on oath in return for a document that satisfied the bank. I think it cost a fiver.

Quote from: Hippogriff on December 28, 2023, 03:03:48 PMThink about the question you're asking...

You're asking strangers on the Internet to give you advice (correct or otherwise) that you will try to use to change someone's mind? If you don't play by the book (really, by the requirements that have been imposed upon you) as Guarantors at this stage... what confidence will the other party have that you will in any way fulfil the obligations placed upon you in case of it all going wonky down the line? Little, I'd say. It may well not make any sense, and be completely wasteful, inefficient and onerous, but you're explicitly asking for the tail to wag the dog at this early stage.

I am a landlord and I find this very peculiar, I wasn't asking to 'wag the tail' I was asking for advice - if anyone else did this or if it was indeed standard practice in Wales

" Signing up a guarantor
To ensure the guarantor is legally bound to guarantee the terms of the occupation contract, the NRLA provides a deed of guarantee form on this page.

You should ensure that this deed is signed and witnessed prior to signing the occupation contract and issuing it to your contract-holders. You should also ensure that an unsigned, draft copy of the occupation contract has been provided to the guarantors before they sign this agreement."

this 👆🏻 last paragraph above (from the NRLA.org website where he got the deed from) is where there is confusion between the landlord and us.
the landlord thinks that both parties have to be present with the same witness and sign at the same time, OR he wants us to get the form signed in the presence of a solicitor if my husband can't get to Wales.

so, I'm not sure if he's misunderstanding this or if we are?

thank you

For all deeds, the witnesses are meant to be in the same room as the main signatory. They're "witnessesing" the signature, not countersigning or confirming it.
In real life, this isn't always done as it should be. It's only a possible issue if the deed's validity is challenged, which is probably very rare (I've never heard of that happening, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen).

A solicitor is bound by the same rules, so they shouldn't agree to witness a signature that they haven't seen signed either. Again, real life isn't always like that, but why should a solicitor take any risk for anything other than a regular and well known client. My own solicitor sometimes completes the witness parts of a deed later on, but always insists on actually witnessing me physically sign things.

But both parties don't have to sign at the same time. That's usually impossible (mortgage deeds and house sale and purchase deeds are probably the most common deeds and they're never signed simultaneously). The most common occurrence is that one party signs the deed (and has that witnessed), leaving the document undated, and then the second party (who is the one in control of the process - the mortgage lender or the seller in my examples) signs and dates the deed (and has that witnessed).

Hope that helps - it's not a guarantor thing, it's a deed thing.